They call it the impossible turn.

Jim Logajan writes:

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

As an aside, it is possible with an SGS 2-33A (the trainer our club has,)
which has a best glide ratio of only about 22:1.

What's on the checklist for total power failure during a climb after takeoff
for this aircraft?

Indeed - but Mxsmanic's opinion (presented as fact) was that circumstances
where you can safely perform unpowered turnbacks are "very rare" - which of
course isn't true in the sweeping way he put it.

They are indeed very rare with any aircraft that fits the category covered by
the topic, namely, powered fixed-wing aircraft. Gliders, helicopters, hot-air
balloons, and blimps are not in that category.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Jim Logajan writes:

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

They certainly do take off, or how would they get into the air?

And they are powered by an engine at the end of a rope.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

They certainly do take off, or how would they get into the air?

By being towed there.

And they are powered by an engine at the end of a rope.

See above.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

They certainly do take off, or how would they get into the air?

By being towed there.

A take off is a take off.


And they are powered by an engine at the end of a rope.

See above.

So by your logic if the engine at the end of the rope quites, there is
no problem because it isn't directly bolted to the glider?



--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

A take off is a take off.

So why is someone with only a license to fly an airplane not allowed to take
off in a helicopter?

So by your logic if the engine at the end of the rope quites, there is
no problem because it isn't directly bolted to the glider?

There is no engine at the end of the rope; there's another aircraft at the end
of the rope.

The recovery technique for a glider is different from that for a powered
airplane. It's as simple as that. For powered airplanes, trying to turn around
and go back to the airport after a total power loss on takeoff is a really,
really bad idea.

On Feb 15, 9:30*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
A take off is a take off.

So why is someone with only a license to fly an airplane not allowed to take
off in a helicopter?

Because you have to learn to fly a helicopter and get a rating to fly
a helicopter.

So by your logic if the engine at the end of the rope quites, there is
no problem because it isn't directly bolted to the glider?

There is no engine at the end of the rope; there's another aircraft at the end
of the rope.


He's never heard of winch launches, Bungee launches or motorised
sailplanes..

george writes:

Because you have to learn to fly a helicopter and get a rating to fly
a helicopter.

But if a takeoff were a takeoff, that wouldn't be true.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

A take off is a take off.

So why is someone with only a license to fly an airplane not allowed to take
off in a helicopter?

Non sequitur.

Your claim was that gliders don't take off.

Obviously they do.

So by your logic if the engine at the end of the rope quites, there is
no problem because it isn't directly bolted to the glider?

There is no engine at the end of the rope; there's another aircraft at the end
of the rope.

The recovery technique for a glider is different from that for a powered
airplane. It's as simple as that.

OK, let's analyze both situations:

In a powered aircraft, the engine fails, you establish best glide and
look for a place to land.

In a glider, the tow engine fails, you release the tow rope, establish best
glide and look for a place to land.

Yep, totally different.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

A take off is a take off.

So why is someone with only a license to fly an airplane not allowed to take
off in a helicopter?

Non sequitur.

On the contrary, it illustrates the fact that a takeoff is not a takeoff. A
takeoff in a helicopter is very different from that in an airplane, which is
one reason why a license to fly the latter is not a license to fly the former.

In a powered aircraft, the engine fails, you establish best glide and
look for a place to land.

In a glider, the tow engine fails, you release the tow rope, establish best
glide and look for a place to land.

Yep, totally different.

Look at the best glide performance for the two aircraft and you'll see why.

I'm not familiar with best practices for glides, but I'd expect an attempt to
turn around to be a bad idea for them as well. It's certainly a bad idea for
a powered airplane.

On Feb 15, 12:36*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.
I'm amused at the claim that gliders do not 'takeoff' and there's now
a number of powered gliders out there..
Mixedups research stops at the GA gate