They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 15, 12:36*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.
I'm amused at the claim that gliders do not 'takeoff' and there's now
a number of powered gliders out there..
Mixedups research stops at the GA gate

george writes:

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.

Even then, it's not quite the same as being in a powered airplane. A glider is
designed to fly without power; a powered aircraft is not.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
george writes:

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.

Even then, it's not quite the same as being in a powered airplane. A glider is
designed to fly without power; a powered aircraft is not.

Yep, powered aircraft stop flying and just flutter willy-nilly to the ground
without power.


--
Jim Pennino

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On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:02:38 -0000, wrote:

Yep, powered aircraft stop flying and just flutter willy-nilly to the ground
without power.

Only half true.

Apparently you haven't seen any of the movies about airplanes loosing
power. They tend to start rattling violently the instant the engine stops.
Then they take on a whistling sound like a bomb being dropped. Hanging on
to the yoke becomes impossible as it takes on a violent forward and
backward motion. All control is lost and the aircraft plows into the
ground then bounces back into the air several times while all external
appendages are ripped off. The good news is that they never catch on fire
and everyone onboard lives to become survivalists for the next 2 hours.


--
Dallas

In rec.aviation.piloting Dallas wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:02:38 -0000, wrote:

Yep, powered aircraft stop flying and just flutter willy-nilly to the ground
without power.

Only half true.

Apparently you haven't seen any of the movies about airplanes loosing
power. They tend to start rattling violently the instant the engine stops.
Then they take on a whistling sound like a bomb being dropped. Hanging on
to the yoke becomes impossible as it takes on a violent forward and
backward motion. All control is lost and the aircraft plows into the
ground then bounces back into the air several times while all external
appendages are ripped off. The good news is that they never catch on fire
and everyone onboard lives to become survivalists for the next 2 hours.


Better than that, on a recent TV adventure show:

A fire breaks out in the cargo hold which also leaves a big hole in the
fuselage.

The hero has to roll the airliner inverted to blow out the fire because "the
wind is blowing faster on the top of the airplane than the bottom".


--
Jim Pennino

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On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:10:00 -0000, wrote:

The hero has to roll the airliner inverted to blow out the fire because "the
wind is blowing faster on the top of the airplane than the bottom".

Well of course silly.. don't you remember that from first day ground
school? It's one the axioms of the Bernoulli principle.

OMG, did I just see that on HBO? Was that "Turbulence" with the flight
attendant landing the airplane?


--
Dallas

Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:10:00 -0000, wrote:

The hero has to roll the airliner inverted to blow out the fire because "the
wind is blowing faster on the top of the airplane than the bottom".

Well of course silly.. don't you remember that from first day ground
school? It's one the axioms of the Bernoulli principle.

OMG, did I just see that on HBO? Was that "Turbulence" with the flight
attendant landing the airplane?

It was in a series called "Human Target".

After the hero got the airplane inverted, the "flight computer" locked up
and wouldn't let him return to normal flight, so he had to climb into
the equipment compartment (unpressurized, at altitude, no oxygen) and
have the handy, on-board nerd reboot the computer.

--
Jim Pennino

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Mxsmanic wrote:

george writes:

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.

Even then, it's not quite the same as being in a powered airplane. A
glider is designed to fly without power; a powered aircraft is not.

The gliders power is provided by another a/c initially, and then it's
switched to natural power in the form of gravity.
If a "normally" poowered a/c was not designed to fly without power, it
would drop like a stone when the engine is cut.
It is not the engine that makes the a/c fly. It is the wings. The
engine simply pulls the a/c through the air, as does gravity/inertia in
the case of a glider.
The only difference is that a glider is usually much lighter, and the
wings longer. The glide ration, due to these differences is different
to a powered a/c. The principles are the same.
If a powered a/c loses power on take off, it lacks sufficient forward
motion and altitude to maintain flight. When a glider loses power (it's
tow plane), on take off, it lacks sufficient forward motion and altitude
to maintain flight.
Same same.
Crash Lander
--

Crash Lander writes:

If a "normally" poowered a/c was not designed to fly without power, it
would drop like a stone when the engine is cut.

Why? The same aerodynamics that help it to fly with power help it to glide
without power.

The only difference is that a glider is usually much lighter, and the
wings longer. The glide ration, due to these differences is different
to a powered a/c. The principles are the same.

The difference in glide ratio is pretty important.

I imagine that trying to turn around in a glider isn't particularly smart,
either, just as it is extremely unwise in a powered airplane. But I don't know
much about gliders.

If a powered a/c loses power on take off, it lacks sufficient forward
motion and altitude to maintain flight. When a glider loses power (it's
tow plane), on take off, it lacks sufficient forward motion and altitude
to maintain flight.
Same same.

In that case, the glider pilot should behave like the pilot of the powered
aircraft, and look for a place to land ahead of him, instead of trying to turn
around.

I imagine that trying to turn around in a glider isn't particularly smart,
either,

It's SOP in gliders and regularly trained.

In that case, the glider pilot should behave like the pilot of the powered
aircraft, and look for a place to land ahead of him, instead of trying to turn
around.

BS.