Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Jun 21, 4:24*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

Large airliners certified for autoland (which means most airliners) can land
themselves if set up to do so, at airports with the proper equipment (which
means an ILS certified for the purpose, although in a pinch almost any ILS
might suffice). Autolands are not the rule, but in a situation like the one
under discussion, where the airplane might be flown by a non-pilot or a pilot
who doesn't have experience in type, an autoland would be the safest option,
as it requires nothing more than the aforementioned pushing of buttons,
turning of knobs,

Yeah right, find the right combination of buttons AND push the button
to talk to a person who may or may not be there to help you push the
right buttons AND fly the plane until you get such combination of
instructions into the MFD to set up for autoland. I BET YOU CAN'T.

Oh wait, your vision is restricted to a 19 inch monitor, so yeah IN
YOUR MSFS simulator, you have a better chance since you don't have a
fear factor of losing your life.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:24:45 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Hatunen writes:

While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel
(although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty
compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are
basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time:
keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to
near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall
just as the wheels tough the runway.

In an emergency, a person who isn't a pilot certified for the aircraft in
question needs to use the automation, not take the controls manually. The
latter can easily lead to disaster.

I so note further down.

The problem is that you need actual practice in an airplane in order to become
good at handling the controls, or you need to find an expensive, full-motion
simulator for the same purpose. Having experience in a vastly different
airplane won't help you much.

Well, duh. It depends on what you're trying to do.

[Rest of obvious stuff deleted]

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Jun 21, 12:39*am, Hatunen wrote:

While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel
(although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty
compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are
basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time:
keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to
near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall
just as the wheels tough the runway.

Yep, the drill is fly the plane which means airspeed, airspeed,
airspeed. Look at that ASEL pilot who landed the king air. He knew
the importance of airspeed.

I doubt that John Q Public would know that if they were afronted with
an array of buttons, lights, gauges to realize where the ASI is,
altimeter, heading and such.

Looking at my own experiences, I know it would be extremely
intimidating and distracting, can't imagine John Q Public sitting in
right or left seat being able to assimulate such a vast array of
information plus program the MFD as MX thinks can be easily done.

Hatunen wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Wingnut writes:
So, you're sayign that flight experience is irrelevant to flying an
aircraft?

That depends on the experience, and the aircraft. Flight experience in
a Cessna 152 will not necessarily be of any use in flying a 747 or a
SR-71.

The lady in question has a commercial license, which implies more
experience than noodling around in a 152.

Commercial airplane rating requires at least 10 hours training in retracts,
controllable pitch prop, or be turbine powered. So it can't be completed
using just a Cessna 150/152. You need some training in something like a
Cessna 172RG or R182, at a minimum.

In article ,
says...

Hatunen wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Wingnut writes:
So, you're sayign that flight experience is irrelevant to flying an
aircraft?

That depends on the experience, and the aircraft. Flight experience in
a Cessna 152 will not necessarily be of any use in flying a 747 or a
SR-71.

The lady in question has a commercial license, which implies more
experience than noodling around in a 152.

Commercial airplane rating requires at least 10 hours training in retracts,
controllable pitch prop, or be turbine powered. So it can't be completed
using just a Cessna 150/152. You need some training in something like a
Cessna 172RG or R182, at a minimum.

Maybe in your country - not in New Zealand, Australia, nor (AFAIK) the
UK. One only need 200 hours, plus a small amount of time under the hood
(10hrs or 5?). The complex requirements are met on paper only (ie you
do a very simple exam).

--
Duncan.

Hatunen writes:

The lady in question has a commercial license, which implies more
experience than noodling around in a 152.

You can fly any sort of aircraft as a commercial pilot, and in particular, a
CPL does not necessarily imply any experience at all in large jet transport
aircraft. If you want to barnstorm across the country in a 152, for example,
you need a CPL.

At a minimum the lady would know pulling back on the yoke raises
the nose and and pushing forward makes for nose down. She would also
know that turning the yoke will not make the plane turn unless the pedals
are also used.

Presumably, but since she will absolutely not be touching these flight
controls, this knowledge is useless.

And, of course, she will know most of the lingo
and will know where to look when told to watch the air speed or
the artificial horizon.

There isn't a lot of lingo to know, but she might find it easier to locate the
attitude indicator on the PFD without it being described to her, and she might
find the airspeed without it being explained, although that depends largely on
her ingenuity--small aircraft twenty years ago did not have PFDs.

She will presumably know the difference
between mag north and true north and will have a pretty good idea
of which direction runway 120 points. She would know the purpose
of the flaps, the VOR, and so on. She will know how to read an
air chart.

All she is going to do is turn a few knobs or move a few levers, which anyone
can do, with or without a pilot's license.

Nonsense. While teh cockpit of a 747 is pretty complex, it still
contains the basic instruments of a twin-engine Beech.

Actually, apart from the compass, standby AI, and altimeter, there's almost
nothing in common. The cockpit does have a yoke, rudder pedals, and a couple
of throttles, but she needs to stay away from those.

I don't recall anyone here saying they could.

This isn't the only place where I discuss aviation. Anyway, the same pilots
who believe that a non-pilot would instantly crash any aircraft also tend to
believe that they can fly anything, even if they've never been in any aircraft
with more than two seats and a propeller.

Well, duh. That's not the question at hand.

Well, yes, it is. You can only stretch knowledge of one aircraft so far, then
you need to explicitly study other aircraft. Knowing how to drive a Ford
Escort does not teach you how to drive a tractor-trailer rig, even if they are
both road vehicles.

You've heard many people claim this? Who? And especially, who
here in this thread? As usual you're making up straw men.

As I've said, I discuss aviation in all sorts of venues, not just on USENET.

But this is a case where it would be especially helpful if the
person taking over the controls had, say, a commercial license,
for the reasons I cited above.

I've explained why those reasons would be mostly inapplicable.

Among other things, an average passenger sitting in the left or right
seat would probably go into shock at the mere sight of an airline
instrument panel.

Not so. In real-world emergency situations, people tend to be a lot calmer
than they are in Hollywood movies or in imagination. There are some who panic,
but many who don't. Natural selection doesn't favor people who panic easily.

Some one with a commercial license, would immediately look for the
instruments familiar to him or her.

And would become just as alarmed as the non-pilot upon realizing that
virtually nothing looks familiar.

Mxsmanic wrote:

You can fly any sort of aircraft as a commercial pilot, and in particular, a
CPL does not necessarily imply any experience at all in large jet transport
aircraft....

You can fly any type of aircraft at all on a private license.

Surprise, surprise!

Brian W
p.s. Entertainment NGs cut out.

brian whatcott writes:

You can fly any type of aircraft at all on a private license.

Surprise, surprise!

Where's the surprise?

On Jun 21, 6:55*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
brian whatcott writes:
You can fly any type of aircraft at all on a private license.

Surprise, surprise!

Where's the surprise?

Detail must not be your forte.

Get off your computer, go to your local airport and take a lesson.
Then you will have the answer to your question

On Jun 21, 11:55*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
brian whatcott writes:
You can fly any type of aircraft at all on a private license.

Surprise, surprise!

Where's the surprise?

The surprise is that after all this time here you don't know that you
can fly aircraft up to a certain weight on a basic PPL.