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On Jun 20, 7:30*pm, Hatunen wrote:
See the reasons I cited above. Among other things, an average passenger sitting in the left or right seat would probably go into shock at the mere sight of an airline instrument panel. Some one with a commercial license, would immediately look for the instruments familiar to him or her. Not sure if you realize MX is a MSFS simmer, has never flown a real plane, not a CGI, and no real world experience inside a real plane. He just misrepresents himself as a pilot. He doesn't understand the real world as you describe above. Your last sentence is the key. Somebody with piloting experience would know what the altimeter would look like in the myriad of instruments presented in front of him or a DG for directional awareness. A non pilot may not be so quick to identify it. Put in glass cockpit in the mix, and you would have me lost trying to interpret the information being presented. I simply can't imagine a non pilot trying to figure it out especially with altitude and such. |
#2
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:26:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Jun 20, 7:30*pm, Hatunen wrote: See the reasons I cited above. Among other things, an average passenger sitting in the left or right seat would probably go into shock at the mere sight of an airline instrument panel. Some one with a commercial license, would immediately look for the instruments familiar to him or her. Not sure if you realize MX is a MSFS simmer, has never flown a real plane, not a CGI, and no real world experience inside a real plane. He just misrepresents himself as a pilot. I'm quite familiar with Mixie. From time to time I get fed up and killfile him, but it's usually set to expred after thirty days of no kills, and he seems to have gone away for that long this time. He doesn't understand the real world as you describe above. Your last sentence is the key. Somebody with piloting experience would know what the altimeter would look like in the myriad of instruments presented in front of him or a DG for directional awareness. A non pilot may not be so quick to identify it. Put in glass cockpit in the mix, and you would have me lost trying to interpret the information being presented. I simply can't imagine a non pilot trying to figure it out especially with altitude and such. While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel (although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time: keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall just as the wheels tough the runway. Of course, that last part takes some real practice (I failed my first flight test on the emergency landing). I don't know if modern airliners can, as they say, land themselves, or at least if they all can. I m pretty sure that if the plane is set up to land itself it has to be at a runway set up for it. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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Hatunen writes:
While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel (although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time: keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall just as the wheels tough the runway. In an emergency, a person who isn't a pilot certified for the aircraft in question needs to use the automation, not take the controls manually. The latter can easily lead to disaster. The problem is that you need actual practice in an airplane in order to become good at handling the controls, or you need to find an expensive, full-motion simulator for the same purpose. Having experience in a vastly different airplane won't help you much. In contrast, anyone can fly with automation, as long as he has instructions from someone qualified. And cruise flight and landing are or can be automated in large jet airliners. So the logical thing to do with an underqualified person in the cockpit is to stick to the automation to fly and land the aircraft. Anyone can turn knobs and move levers, but most people require a certain amount of practice before they can competently drive a moving vehicle. If aircraft are similar enough, of course, this doesn't apply. One can fly one type of Cessna single-engine prop with only experience in other models, and not make too many mistakes (although retractable gear and pitch adjustments can complicate things). But these small aircraft and large airliners are not similar. Of course, that last part takes some real practice (I failed my first flight test on the emergency landing). I don't know if modern airliners can, as they say, land themselves, or at least if they all can. I m pretty sure that if the plane is set up to land itself it has to be at a runway set up for it. Large airliners certified for autoland (which means most airliners) can land themselves if set up to do so, at airports with the proper equipment (which means an ILS certified for the purpose, although in a pinch almost any ILS might suffice). Autolands are not the rule, but in a situation like the one under discussion, where the airplane might be flown by a non-pilot or a pilot who doesn't have experience in type, an autoland would be the safest option, as it requires nothing more than the aforementioned pushing of buttons, turning of knobs, and movement of levers. No manual flying skill is required, and manual flying skill is the one thing that you cannot provide to an inexperienced person in the heat of an emergency. |
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On Jun 21, 4:24*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Large airliners certified for autoland (which means most airliners) can land themselves if set up to do so, at airports with the proper equipment (which means an ILS certified for the purpose, although in a pinch almost any ILS might suffice). Autolands are not the rule, but in a situation like the one under discussion, where the airplane might be flown by a non-pilot or a pilot who doesn't have experience in type, an autoland would be the safest option, as it requires nothing more than the aforementioned pushing of buttons, turning of knobs, Yeah right, find the right combination of buttons AND push the button to talk to a person who may or may not be there to help you push the right buttons AND fly the plane until you get such combination of instructions into the MFD to set up for autoland. I BET YOU CAN'T. Oh wait, your vision is restricted to a 19 inch monitor, so yeah IN YOUR MSFS simulator, you have a better chance since you don't have a fear factor of losing your life. |
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On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:24:45 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote: Hatunen writes: While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel (although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time: keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall just as the wheels tough the runway. In an emergency, a person who isn't a pilot certified for the aircraft in question needs to use the automation, not take the controls manually. The latter can easily lead to disaster. I so note further down. The problem is that you need actual practice in an airplane in order to become good at handling the controls, or you need to find an expensive, full-motion simulator for the same purpose. Having experience in a vastly different airplane won't help you much. Well, duh. It depends on what you're trying to do. [Rest of obvious stuff deleted] -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#6
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On Jun 21, 12:39*am, Hatunen wrote:
While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel (although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time: keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall just as the wheels tough the runway. Yep, the drill is fly the plane which means airspeed, airspeed, airspeed. Look at that ASEL pilot who landed the king air. He knew the importance of airspeed. I doubt that John Q Public would know that if they were afronted with an array of buttons, lights, gauges to realize where the ASI is, altimeter, heading and such. Looking at my own experiences, I know it would be extremely intimidating and distracting, can't imagine John Q Public sitting in right or left seat being able to assimulate such a vast array of information plus program the MFD as MX thinks can be easily done. |
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