Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Hatunen writes:

Nor can it realistically
simulate the feeling of aiming the plane at a real runway and
trying your best to grease the wheels on, but instead coming in a
bit high and trying to force the plne down to the runway without
bouncing too much.

Actually it does that rather well.

Delusional.

The view looks like a flat screen and there is no peripherial view.

A PC can never simulate that feeling in the
pit of your stomache when teh plane hits a downdraft and loses
2000 feet just like that.

Like many private pilots, you think of flight in terms of physical sensations.

The physical sensations of a downdraft are real in real airplanes and you
have to learn to deal with them to fly real airplanes.

A PC can not give you the feel of a plane as it is slowed to
stall speen with the stall warning blaring and the plane
shuddering a little. Andalthough they no longer teach it, a PC
cannot simulate the quiet but scary feeling f being in a spin and
the slight panic as you try to bring it out of that spin.

Since they no longer teach it, doesn't that mean that there are no longer any
Real Pilots? How can you know anything about a spin without spinning in a
real aircraft?

Wrong.

Yes spins are still taught, they are just not a requirement for private.

And the PC can not simulate the visual context of a real plane
where the instruments are spread out; you'd have to keep your
nose pretty close to the monitor to simulate this.

Actually, the PC can do this, with the right add-ons.

Sure if you have a 360 degree wrap around display.

Do you?

As to Mixie's apparent idea that somehow his PC is a good
emulation of a big-time simulator, where the cockpit layout is
very close to the appearance of the craft's real cockpit and
where the hydraulics on the simulator can create most of the
bumps and jerks of real flight, that is downright ludicrous.

I guess you haven't been flying or simming much recently. The cockpit layout
of the sim is realistic enough that you may not recognize it as a sim at first
glance. It's not difficult to display photo-realistic visuals, after all.

Since it is all on a small (compared to even a C150 panel) 2 dimensional flat
screen, only someone delusional could not immediately tell it is a display.


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

The view looks like a flat screen and there is no peripherial view.

Look up TrackIR.

The physical sensations of a downdraft are real in real airplanes and you
have to learn to deal with them to fly real airplanes.

That's about 0.000001% of what you have to learn to deal with to fly
airplanes, and a great deal of what you have to learn (the great majority, in
fact) has nothing to do with physical sensations.

Maybe if you're puttering around in a biplane you might depend a lot on
sensations. But in a 747 you don't use them at all. Large aircraft are flown
by the numbers, for the most part.

Yes spins are still taught, they are just not a requirement for private.

So spins are not taught for a PPL, QED.

Sure if you have a 360 degree wrap around display.

No, you can also have a display that changes what it shows based on your head
movements. It works extremely well.

Do you?

I don't care enough about the virtual cockpit view to use such add-ons. I can
"turn my head" left and right with a twist of the joystick if I need to look
around. I fly in IMC a fair amount so often there's nothing to look at except
the instrument panel.

Since it is all on a small (compared to even a C150 panel) 2 dimensional flat
screen, only someone delusional could not immediately tell it is a display.

It can fool both pilots and non-pilots. Sims have come a long way since the
old days.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

The view looks like a flat screen and there is no peripherial view.

Look up TrackIR.

I have.

It is still a flat screen and there is no peripherial view.

To say otherwise is a lie or a delusion.

The physical sensations of a downdraft are real in real airplanes and you
have to learn to deal with them to fly real airplanes.

That's about 0.000001% of what you have to learn to deal with to fly
airplanes, and a great deal of what you have to learn (the great majority, in
fact) has nothing to do with physical sensations.

It is a lot more than 0.000001% of what you have to learn and you have to
learn it to fly real airplanes.

snip delusional babble about how realistic small, flat screes with no
peripheral view are


--
Jim Pennino

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On Jun 22, 6:20*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

That's about 0.000001% of what you have to learn to deal with to fly
airplanes, and a great deal of what you have to learn (the great majority, in
fact) has nothing to do with physical sensations.

WRONG. Ignore what the plane tells you before a stall and YOU would
be dead.

One of the first things I was taught was to NOT ignore what the plane
is trying to tell you. It WILL tell you when it's ready to stop
flying BEFORE it shows on your airspeed indicator something you have
no clue about since MSFS doesn't indicate this. As others already
told you, you feel it in the controls (mushy, then shudders).

Same thing for landing, ignore what the plane when it's not ready to
land and YOU would be dead. You feel it before you see it indicated
on instruments. But of course YOU HAVE NO CLUE.

writes:

Ignore what the plane tells you before a stall and YOU would
be dead.

Fly the airplane correctly and you won't have to be told about an impending
stall by the airplane. If you feel an impending stall, you're already too far
behind the aircraft.

One of the first things I was taught was to NOT ignore what the plane
is trying to tell you.

It seems to have made an overriding impression upon you, as you seem to rely
upon it above all else. If you're not careful, that will kill you one day,
unless you stick to perfect VMC.

It WILL tell you when it's ready to stop
flying BEFORE it shows on your airspeed indicator something you have
no clue about since MSFS doesn't indicate this.

As I've said, if you are flying correctly, you won't get any secret messages
from the aircraft.

You may be able to get away with flying like this in a Cessna 152, but it
won't work in a 747.

As others already told you, you feel it in the controls (mushy, then
shudders).

Only after you've fallen behind the airplane.

It's a bit like saying you know you're approaching the braking limit in your
car when one of the wheels locks. That's very true, but by the time one of the
wheels locks, you're already far beyond where you should safely be. Where
there's smoke, there's fire, but it's better to avoid conditions that start
fires to begin with.

Same thing for landing, ignore what the plane when it's not ready to
land and YOU would be dead. You feel it before you see it indicated
on instruments.

You need to find other ways to fly than by the seat of your pants. Or stop
flying IFR, at least.

On Jun 23, 3:47*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:


As others already told you, you feel it in the controls (mushy, then
shudders).

Only after you've fallen behind the airplane.

WRONG AGAIN. Ever hear of SLOW FLIGHT????????????

You need to find other ways to fly than by the seat of your pants. Or stop
flying IFR, at least.

WRONG AGAIN. LANDING IS NOT IFR NOR WAS I TALKING ABOUT FLYING IN
IMC. YOU DON'T EXPERIENCE WINDSHEAR IN MSFS, DO YOU where suddenly
your controls get mushy??????????

YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T FLY A REAL PLANE OR HAVE A CLUE ABOUT FLYING A
REAL PLANE, DO YOU or you wouldn't come up with crap like the
above.

There are many reasons for flight that require you to NOT look at your
instruments but fly by the seat of your pants. Example would be
photography, search and rescue. SO, NO I AM NOT BEHIND THE PLANE.

BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THIS because of your closed mind about MSFS
THINKING IT IS LIKE THE REAL THING!!!!!!!!!!

writes:

Ever hear of SLOW FLIGHT????????????

Be it slow flight or fast flight, you don't wait until something goes wrong to
react. Do not assume that all aircraft will be as forgiving of mistakes as
some tiny airplanes are.

LANDING IS NOT IFR NOR WAS I TALKING ABOUT FLYING IN IMC.

As I recall, you've talked about it before, in terms that worried me.

YOU DON'T EXPERIENCE WINDSHEAR IN MSFS,

Actually, I think you can, with add-ons like ActiveSky, but I don't recall
experiencing it.

DO YOU where suddenly your controls get mushy??????????

I never reach a point where the controls get mushy except for occasional
academic experiments. I'd never allow that to happen in normal flight. I want
fat safety margins around my flight regime.

There are many reasons for flight that require you to NOT look at your
instruments but fly by the seat of your pants. Example would be
photography, search and rescue.

I don't do photography or S&R. All you really need to see visually is traffic,
and you don't need to fly by the seat of your pants at all (and you cannot,
under IFR).

SO, NO I AM NOT BEHIND THE PLANE.

Well, certainly if you scream it out, it must be so, eh?

Mxsmanic wrote:

I never reach a point where the controls get mushy except for occasional
academic experiments. I'd never allow that to happen in normal flight. I want
fat safety margins around my flight regime.

Unless your PC has controls with active feedback, all you will ever feel
is the spring tension.

It is impossible for any of the consumer grade PC stuff to ever feel mushy.

--
Jim Pennino

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On Jun 23, 5:10*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

I never reach a point where the controls get mushy except for occasional
academic experiments. I'd never allow that to happen in normal flight. I want
fat safety margins around my flight regime.

YOU GET MUSHY CONTROLS IN MSFS???????????? YOU DON"T HAVE CONTROLS IN
MSFS, YOU USE A JOYSTICK OR A KEYBOARD.

I don't do photography or S&R. All you really need to see visually is traffic,
and you don't need to fly by the seat of your pants at all (and you cannot,
under IFR).

THEN YOU DON'T FLY A REAL PLANE IF YOU THINK PHOTOGRAPHY ANSD S&R IS
THE ONLY TIME YOU DO SLOW FLIGHT.. YOU LAND A PLANE UNDER VFR, NOT
IFR.

SO, NO I AM NOT BEHIND THE PLANE.

Well, certainly if you scream it out, it must be so, eh?

NO, YOU CAN"T SEEM TO COMPREHEND THAT MSFS IS NOT FLYING A PLANE. IT
SIMULATES FLYING.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Ignore what the plane tells you before a stall and YOU would
be dead.

Fly the airplane correctly and you won't have to be told about an impending
stall by the airplane. If you feel an impending stall, you're already too far
behind the aircraft.

Doing stalls periodically is a requirement, not an option or a mistake.


--
Jim Pennino

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