Why not put an audible variometer in every glider?

On Monday, June 3, 2013 4:55:12 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I should
think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring skills
would get boring rather fast.

The theory seems to be that once a student passes the PTS, the successful pilots take the initiative to continue and self-direct their training until they retire entirely from flying. If pilot does not do that, it is perhaps desirable that they get bored and quit.

With the present training fleet, the majority of pilots in the USA learn to fly without an audible variometer and one might argue that that is the most basic skill because batteries sometimes go dead, and many gliders do not have audible variometers.

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 17:36:04 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Monday, June 3, 2013 4:55:12 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

If a student isn't taught the elements of soaring during basic glider
training, why would anybody expect him to stick around for long? I
should think that flying a glider without having the necessary soaring
skills would get boring rather fast.

The theory seems to be that once a student passes the PTS, the
successful pilots take the initiative to continue and self-direct their
training until they retire entirely from flying. If pilot does not do
that, it is perhaps desirable that they get bored and quit.

With the present training fleet, the majority of pilots in the USA learn
to fly without an audible variometer and one might argue that that is
the most basic skill because batteries sometimes go dead, and many
gliders do not have audible variometers.

As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio
varios and FLARM. Part of a student's training involves learning to put
the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and
putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing
the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and
helping with the DI in the morning?

I should, perhaps add that we use a booking system for training in which
the minimum slot is half a day (one glider + instructor per two students
for the half day). An explicit part of the booked slot is being there to
help with getting the kit out and DIed if you have a morning booking and
being there to help pack the hangar in the evening after an afternoon
booking.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio

varios and FLARM. Part of a student's training involves learning to put

the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and

putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing

the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and

helping with the DI in the morning?


Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:44:34 AM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:



As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio



varios and FLARM. Part of a student's training involves learning to put



the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and



putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing



the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and



helping with the DI in the morning?





Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??

And radios. Why wouldn't you? We're training people to be cross country pilots.

Paul

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:56:41 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:44:34 AM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio
the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and
putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing
the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and
helping with the DI in the morning?

Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??

And radios. Why wouldn't you? We're training people to be cross country pilots.


We've circled back to the original topic question that I posted. Is there really such a stark contrast between UK and USA pilots on this matter? I wonder if it springs from the government regulation of USA gliding by the FAA, whereas UK gliding is "self-regulated" by the BGA.

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:21:45 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:56:41 AM UTC-4, wrote:

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 2:44:34 AM UTC+1, son_of_flubber wrote:



On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:48:07 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:



As I mentioned previously, all gliders in our club fleet carry audio

the batteries in gliders at the start of the day and taking them out and

putting them on charge in the evening. How is that different from doing

the same with the 'chutes and being involved in hangar packing and

helping with the DI in the morning?



Audio varios, FLARM, parachutes? In a club glider??



And radios. Why wouldn't you? We're training people to be cross country pilots.





We've circled back to the original topic question that I posted. Is there really such a stark contrast between UK and USA pilots on this matter? I wonder if it springs from the government regulation of USA gliding by the FAA, whereas UK gliding is "self-regulated" by the BGA.

What does the FAA have to do with this all? I don't get it... Just like in the UK, most gliders in Germany and France are club-owned and very well equipped and yes, that included audio varios even back in the 80's when I flew there. Parachutes were mandatory for all seats even back then.
Herb

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 9:53:04 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 6:21:45 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

We've circled back to the original topic question that I posted. Is there really such a stark contrast between UK and USA pilots on this matter? I wonder if it springs from the government regulation of USA gliding by the FAA, whereas UK gliding is "self-regulated" by the BGA.


What does the FAA have to do with this all? I don't get it... Just like in the UK, most gliders in Germany and France are club-owned and very well equipped and yes, that included audio varios even back in the 80's when I flew there. Parachutes were mandatory for all seats even back then.

Herb

How do you explain the starkly contrasting attitudes (between UK/Germany/France and the USA) wrt equipping trainers? I'm grasping at straws when I raise the BGA vs. FAA/SSA/NTSB/AOPA regulatory approaches, but those approaches, and the regulations, and the equipment of trainers is quite different. Perhaps the regulatory environment affects our attitudes and behavior, especially when so many regulations are known or taken to be bogus. (For example the FARs wrt oxygen use are known to be based on wrong and out-of-date scientific knowledge.)