Paraglider winching aka kiteing

On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:27:04 -0800, son_of_flubber wrote:

I don't think that word means what I think it means. Inconceivable!

Which word?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:27:04 -0800, son_of_flubber wrote:



I don't think that word means what I think it means. Inconceivable!



Which word?

The one in quotes.

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:48:17 -0800, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:09:49 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:27:04 -0800, son_of_flubber wrote:
The one in quotes.

OK. I used it as shorthand for "launch site that's not shown on air
navigation charts and not NOTAMed".

I don't have any Swedish charts or access to their NOTAMs (do you?) so,
as I've said previously, I can't tell whether the field is marked on
Swedish charts or whether winching at this location should be NOTAMed.
Hence I have no idea whether doing so was breaking any regulations.

All I can say is that the winch appears to be on a permanent microlite/
hang gliding site and that, IMO, makes it a place that should not be
overflown in the way that it was.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Saturday, January 11, 2014 1:30:30 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

I don't have any Swedish charts or access to their NOTAMs (do you?)

No (the event took place in Norway). I have only hearsay information from internet forums where someone commented that a NOTAM was not required for paraglider winching prior to this event, but the regulatory agency changed the rule consequent to this event.

Since I have no experience with winching, the concept of an errant airplane running into a winch cable is new to me and therefore interesting. It's not something that is often mentioned.

You have experience with winching and therefore see the event from a completely different perspective. Your matter-of-fact comment that errant airplanes commonly enter winch zones was also interesting to me.

On 11/01/14 23:38, son_of_flubber wrote:
Since I have no experience with winching, the concept of an errant airplane running into a winch cable is new to me and therefore interesting. It's not something that is often mentioned.

You have experience with winching and therefore see the event from a completely different perspective. Your matter-of-fact comment that errant airplanes commonly enter winch zones was also interesting to me.

Have a look at "Airprox Report No 052/07" on p171 of
http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/docs/423/ukabbk18.pdf
which includes
"Several times each year pilots of ac inbound to Kemble
appear to misidentify Aston Down for Kemble and enter a
circuit or even line up on one of the two RWs, ignoring
the different RW direction; the wind; the winch; the
gliders - both in circuit and on the airfields and a
double-deck control bus parked at the launch point on
the runway. It is often the case that these same pilots
are in communication with Kemble throughout and only
realise they are mistaken when Kemble reports no sight
of them on approach."

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 10:11:36 +0000, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 11/01/14 23:38, son_of_flubber wrote:
Since I have no experience with winching, the concept of an errant
airplane running into a winch cable is new to me and therefore
interesting. It's not something that is often mentioned.

You have experience with winching and therefore see the event from a
completely different perspective. Your matter-of-fact comment that
errant airplanes commonly enter winch zones was also interesting to me.

Have a look at "Airprox Report No 052/07" on p171 of
http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/docs/423/ukabbk18.pdf which includes
"Several times each year pilots of ac inbound to Kemble appear to
misidentify Aston Down for Kemble and enter a circuit or even line up
on one of the two RWs, ignoring the different RW direction; the wind;
the winch; the gliders - both in circuit and on the airfields and a
double-deck control bus parked at the launch point on the runway. It
is often the case that these same pilots are in communication with
Kemble throughout and only realise they are mistaken when Kemble
reports no sight of them on approach."

We have had the same problem at GRL, but with GA traffic for Little
Gransden (3km, 1.6 nm away). Never mind that we have three runways that
form a large triangle while Little Gransden is a single 500m runway. You
really wonder what, if anything, goes on in these guy's heads, especially
the one who made three attempts to land at GRL while we were launching
the grid during a Regionals. And then he got abusive when told he
wouldn't be allowed to leave until we'd finished launching.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On 12/01/14 14:21, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 10:11:36 +0000, Tom Gardner wrote:

On 11/01/14 23:38, son_of_flubber wrote:
Since I have no experience with winching, the concept of an errant
airplane running into a winch cable is new to me and therefore
interesting. It's not something that is often mentioned.

You have experience with winching and therefore see the event from a
completely different perspective. Your matter-of-fact comment that
errant airplanes commonly enter winch zones was also interesting to me.

Have a look at "Airprox Report No 052/07" on p171 of
http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/docs/423/ukabbk18.pdf which includes
"Several times each year pilots of ac inbound to Kemble appear to
misidentify Aston Down for Kemble and enter a circuit or even line up
on one of the two RWs, ignoring the different RW direction; the wind;
the winch; the gliders - both in circuit and on the airfields and a
double-deck control bus parked at the launch point on the runway. It
is often the case that these same pilots are in communication with
Kemble throughout and only realise they are mistaken when Kemble
reports no sight of them on approach."

We have had the same problem at GRL, but with GA traffic for Little
Gransden (3km, 1.6 nm away). Never mind that we have three runways that
form a large triangle while Little Gransden is a single 500m runway. You
really wonder what, if anything, goes on in these guy's heads, especially
the one who made three attempts to land at GRL while we were launching
the grid during a Regionals. And then he got abusive when told he
wouldn't be allowed to leave until we'd finished launching.

I've watched a light aircraft shimmy down the side of our main
runway (while we were winch launching) rocking his wings from
side to side, before disappearing off to one side. Clearly his
thought processes were "this doesn't look right, where the hell am I"

Less authoritatively...
neilmac 19th May 2007, 11:58
GA plane joining Kemble from the NW last week,
A/C "Confirm by your threshold you have gliders"?
FISO "Last time I looked they were 747s"
A/C "Ahh Roger ..............I ll reposition for your overhead again"
Plane making approach to a nearby gliding site
NM
from http://www.pprune.org/archive/index....59309-p-4.html

Or the pilot that doesn't believe we're not Kemble until he is led
out to look at the 6ft "AD" letters in the grass by the clubhouse.