ASG-29E vs. JS-1Jet Sustainer

At 13:29 28 January 2015, wrote:
I have no experience with the new jet powered gliders other than
what I
have seen during flight demonstrations at Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

The noise was nothing short of deafening!

My immediate thought was we could not allow them at our gliderport
as the
neighbors would justifiably raise hell.

Tom Knauff


Presumably sustainer jets would be used away from the airfield.

Some pilots will not be able to resist doing beat-ups / flyby's /restarts/ self launch/ or whatever, but unless the remarkable noise issue can be solved, the airport / gliderport neighbors will raise hell, and either close the gliderport, or cause regulations to ban their use.

Anyone with any interest, better investigate the noise issue before purchasing.

Tom Knauff

On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 7:36:28 PM UTC, Tom Knauff wrote:
Some pilots will not be able to resist doing beat-ups / flyby's /restarts/ self launch/ or whatever, but unless the remarkable noise issue can be solved, the airport / gliderport neighbors will raise hell, and either close the gliderport, or cause regulations to ban their use.

Anyone with any interest, better investigate the noise issue before purchasing.

Tom Knauff

Jets are very noisy, albeit directionally so in flight, there's not much left to investigate about that. It's more a question pilots and airfields reaching an understanding about their use. Surely an airfield management or gliding club chief instructor can ban jet glider self launches (which would be outwith the glider's TC any), unauthorised powered low passes and/or use within a specified distance from the airfield? That is what I am planning to self-impose if and when I get my turbine installed. It would be a sorry state of affairs if an airfield couldn't keep that level of discipline.

John Galloway (UK)

On 30/01/2015 23:21, wrote:

Jets are very noisy, albeit directionally so in flight, there's not
much left to investigate about that. It's more a question pilots and
airfields reaching an understanding about their use. Surely an
airfield management or gliding club chief instructor can ban jet
glider self launches (which would be outwith the glider's TC any),
unauthorised powered low passes and/or use within a specified
distance from the airfield? That is what I am planning to
self-impose if and when I get my turbine installed. It would be a
sorry state of affairs if an airfield couldn't keep that level of
discipline.

There were a few Jet JS1's a the SA Grand Prix Qualifier. Some of these
got fired up a few times when I was around the airfield. There were some
fly passes, run ups before launch and once, after finish, when 6 or 7
gliders were looking for place to land from 50m finish altitude at the
same time.

Yes, there are noisy, but not that noisy. My impression is that they
were less intrusive or annoying than the local flight school's Cessna
152. The jet noise was more of a novelty than a discomfort. I did not
notice anybody cringing with their fingers in their ears.

One or two jet pilots did ground run ups before launch. I suspect they
were just being cautious rather than this being a required procedure.
But if you have a "zero jet noise on the airfield" policy, you may be
constrained from doing a pre-launch run-up.


Ian

At 07:16 01 February 2015, Ian wrote:
On 30/01/2015 23:21, wrote:

Jets are very noisy, albeit directionally so in flight, there's not
much left to investigate about that. It's more a question pilots and
airfields reaching an understanding about their use. Surely an
airfield management or gliding club chief instructor can ban jet
glider self launches (which would be outwith the glider's TC any),
unauthorised powered low passes and/or use within a specified
distance from the airfield? That is what I am planning to
self-impose if and when I get my turbine installed. It would be a
sorry state of affairs if an airfield couldn't keep that level of
discipline.

There were a few Jet JS1's a the SA Grand Prix Qualifier. Some of these
got fired up a few times when I was around the airfield. There were
some
fly passes, run ups before launch and once, after finish, when 6 or 7
gliders were looking for place to land from 50m finish altitude at the
same time.

Yes, there are noisy, but not that noisy. My impression is that they
were less intrusive or annoying than the local flight school's Cessna
152. The jet noise was more of a novelty than a discomfort. I did not
notice anybody cringing with their fingers in their ears.

One or two jet pilots did ground run ups before launch. I suspect they
were just being cautious rather than this being a required procedure.
But if you have a "zero jet noise on the airfield" policy, you may be
constrained from doing a pre-launch run-up.


Ian


Doesn't seem to be a problem in the more densely populated UK which
now has quite a number of HpH Shark jets and probably more NIMBY's
per head of population than the USA. Tom's being a bit of a 'prophet of
doom' I think.

I'm just looking at the top 3 in the 18 meter class for the last 4-5 Worlds when I say the Ventus 2 seems to not be quite equal to the 29 and JS1. I agree that in the reality that I have witnessed in the US (best 18m US pilot DJ flies a V2) is that the V2 is well within the "margin of pilot/performance error." But at the World level, the 29 seems to be the clearly dominant 18m machine with the JS1 right on its heels and the V2 in trail. Perhaps that is just a function of market share. The JS1 seems to be selling well along with the 29. I cannot remember the last time I heard of a new V2 being purchased.

If I said the D2 earlier that was an error. In Standard class the D2 is clearly ultra competitive. Again I am talking about the 18 meter flapped.