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Gliders Transponder exemption and Project EVA



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 22nd 15, 07:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default Gliders Transponder exemption and Project EVA

TABS/TSO-C199 has been mentioned on r.a.s quite a few times before. The SSA has had representation in the development of TABS/TSO-C199 and I expect/hope folks in SSA management are well aware of it. The TABS/TSO-C199 TSO document is available from the FAA TSO library at http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...e?OpenFrameSet. Technical folks who care about this stuff really should read that TSO.

The title on the current ANPRM is a little confusing, it is *not* just about the transponder exemption, but also includes whether gliders should also keep their current ADS-B Out 2020 Carriage mandate exemption (which might have more severe financial consequences than removing the transponder exemption). And TABS/TSO-C199 is also discussed in that ANPRM and the folks at the FAA involved in this ANPRM are very well aware of TABS/TSO-C199. The FAA is specifically asking for feedback about the the overall picture of transponders, ADS-B Out and TABS, and I would expect any SSA response would need to, and would do so.

The USA glider community needs to be careful in dealing with a very complex situation. You've got some suggestions here and raise some very good issues, but the SSA needs to first think though the issues before devising what to do. There might for example while TABS/TSO-C199 is interesting and may have some benefits there may be arguments where TABS/TSO-C199 would *not* be the best thing to do.

I share your concern about the limited time available here this stuff needs to be worked though by an SSA team looking at it. My understanding is a team is being put together to do so. A public forum just does not seem the right place to try to discuss some of these complex and political issues.
  #2  
Old June 22nd 15, 08:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
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Posts: 275
Default Gliders Transponder exemption and Project EVA

I have seen little on TABS information to define, cost, installation or even if it will be acceptable to the FAA. I see the neat little 1"X1" GPS WAAS capable receivers, but no information on the rest of the TABS unit, power or antenna requirement.

Many (some?) glider owners and clubs are installing transponders on their own. The ADSB mandate for tow planes will be hard enough on most clubs. But a lot of clubs may not be operating within the 30nm Mode C veil and will not be required to equip their tow planes. Luckily we are starting to see new transponders with GPS to meet the ADSB out requirement at a reasonable cost.
  #3  
Old June 23rd 15, 09:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Soarin Again[_2_]
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Posts: 30
Default Gliders Transponder exemption and Project EVA

Snips
At 18:49 22 June 2015, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I expect/hope folks in SSA management are well aware of it.
this stuff needs to be worked though by an SSA team looking at it. My
understanding is a team is being put together to do so. A public forum

just does not seem the right place to try to discuss some of these complex
and political issues.

While I would take issue with the implication that the average pilot is not
competent to openly discuss and positively contribute regarding this issue.
The fact remains that Darryl’s post seems to have effectively halted any
discussion on RAS and will likely lead to a correspondingly pathetic amount
of unfocused written replies to the FAA’s ANPRM.

Saying that the SSA has been involved but apparently is just now coming up
with a team that will need to first look at the issues before devising what
to do. Should hardly be expected to give comfort to the U.S. glider pilots
who will be financially and permanently impacted by changes to these
exemptions.

Although the transponder exemption applies to all aircraft which were not
originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system. This
recent ANPRM specifically applies only to gliders. Airplanes being left
out can easily be attributed to the fact that AOPA has significant
influence with the FAA thru their well funded effective lobbying
capabilities.

Conversely when we asked why we were unable to get SSA support during our
own struggle with the FAA and Cal Trans with saving soaring at Cal City.
We were eventually informed by an SSA official, that was because the SSA is
a 501c3 organization and it is forbidden by law from lobbying.

My intention was to raise the Red flag on this issue so that pilots were
informed enough to decide if they wanted to get involved or stand back and
let whatever happens happen.

M Eiler



  #4  
Old June 24th 15, 04:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default Gliders Transponder exemption and Project EVA

Marty, I would like to believe that individuals are doing due diligence and research before speaking (on the forum) or posting to the FAA comment page.. I know I am researching the TABS tech requirements and what that means to gliders or other battery only, or no battery aircraft. The FAA needs to allow battery and wiring installations with field approvals from knowledgeable IAs and DARs for standard certificated aircraft. Plus the monetary impact for the equipment. This cannot be applied to gliders only, although gliders may have the most impact above 10,000 MSL. Not many J-3 Cubs, balloons or hang gliders above 10K.

Plus there are a lot of people on safari, or contest flying right now. I do agree that this needs to be kept on the forefront so pilots do respond smartly to the FAA comment board.

BillT
  #5  
Old June 23rd 15, 09:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Soarin Again[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Gliders Transponder exemption and Project EVA

Snips
At 18:49 22 June 2015, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I expect/hope folks in SSA management are well aware of it.
this stuff needs to be worked though by an SSA team looking at it. My
understanding is a team is being put together to do so. A public forum

just does not seem the right place to try to discuss some of these complex
and political issues.

While I would take issue with the implication that the average pilot is not
competent to openly discuss and positively contribute regarding this issue.
The fact remains that Darryl’s post seems to have effectively halted any
discussion on RAS and will likely lead to a correspondingly pathetic amount
of unfocused written replies to the FAA’s ANPRM.

Saying that the SSA has been involved but apparently is just now coming up
with a team that will need to first look at the issues before devising what
to do. Should hardly be expected to give comfort to the U.S. glider pilots
who will be financially and permanently impacted by changes to these
exemptions.

Although the transponder exemption applies to all aircraft which were not
originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system. This
recent ANPRM specifically applies only to gliders. Airplanes being left
out can easily be attributed to the fact that AOPA has significant
influence with the FAA thru their well funded effective lobbying
capabilities.

Conversely when we asked why we were unable to get SSA support during our
own struggle with the FAA and Cal Trans with saving soaring at Cal City.
We were eventually informed by an SSA official, that was because the SSA is
a 501c3 organization and it is forbidden by law from lobbying.

My intention was to raise the Red flag on this issue so that pilots were
informed enough to decide if they wanted to get involved or stand back and
let whatever happens happen.

M Eiler



 




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