Libelle 201 query

About the only thing of note would be AD compliance. There have been a couple of AD's requiring the purchase of parts from Streifeneder, but the 2 that spring to mind are old enough that they must have been completed (airbrake torque tube reinforcement & rudder yoke replacement). I recently bought a Glasflugel Mosquito from Western Australia and found that a 4-5 year old AD requiring the replacement of an elevator pushrod with a new part from Germany had not been completed.

What does it weigh? The paint looks original and with a no damage history it shouldn't have gained much. If it has been at an aerotow club the belly release may not be serviceable, although its not a big deal to make it so. Does it have ballast bags fitted? I note that no parachute or radio is specified in the ad, they may cost you a few thousand dollars if not included.

I don't think you can really go wrong at that price. As long as you fit in it.

Cheers,

Nick.


On Tuesday, 2 February 2016 00:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:
Nick Gilbert;918501 Wrote:
Hi Frank,

There are several Standard Libelles in South Australia, including a few
at Gawler, and at least one at Stonefield. I'm sure the owners of these
gliders would have been more than happy for you to have a sit in one to
see how you fit. I am guessing you are likely at Balaklava.

For what it's worth, I'm 6 foot 3 & quite meaty, and I flew a Libelle
for many years. If anything, the biggest issue was related to my feet
rather than the size of the cockpit. Some people find them to be quite
narrow across the shoulders as the cockpit walls taper inwards at the
top, but deceptively long.

My Libelle was a combination of 2 - early production wings combined with
late production fuselage. My wings were balsa core and had upper & lower
surface brakes. I don't believe the switch to foam core was intended to
modernise the glider, more to solve a material sourcing problem.

Jim, for what it's worth, mine was the first of 2 libelles that Bob
Dircks owned, VH-GAK.

A 1973 build Libelle is likely to have foam core, the thicker & rounder
tailplane, and top surface airbrakes only. Come to think of it,
considering the fact that i'm an avid reader of gliding classified
sites, and Libelles, I am fairly sure I know the one you are talking
about. Considering it's serial number is in the late 450's I am certain
it is as described above.

Cheers,

Nick Gilbert
Mosquito VH-GSG


On Saturday, 30 January 2016 12:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:-
Thanks for the comprehensive feedback chaps.
I cant actually try out the glider as it is 2300Km away.
I will be making an epic road trip to check her out.
I will fit, as I'm not really big, but my buddy was the one I was
concerned about. He is about 6"1 and 100Kg.
Sounds like it won't be an issue for him.
If she checks out ok I will be hauling her home.
I hope to become a regular contributor to this forum, even if its just
to ask dumb newbie type questions, as this will be my first private
sailplane.
I have a significant history of hang gliding, RC model soaring and FPV
piloting.
I'm in Adelaide South Australia.
Cheers
Frank.




--
Ommadawn-
Its a B version, 1880 hours.
You guessed it, Nick. I'm with BGC in SA.
Any obvious things I should look for when inspecting a 43 YEAR OLD
GLIDER!!!?




--
Ommadawn

Originally Posted by Nick Gilbert

About the only thing of note would be AD compliance. There have been a couple of AD's requiring the purchase of parts from Streifeneder, but the 2 that spring to mind are old enough that they must have been completed (airbrake torque tube reinforcement & rudder yoke replacement). I recently bought a Glasflugel Mosquito from Western Australia and found that a 4-5 year old AD requiring the replacement of an elevator pushrod with a new part from Germany had not been completed.

What does it weigh? The paint looks original and with a no damage history it shouldn't have gained much. If it has been at an aerotow club the belly release may not be serviceable, although its not a big deal to make it so. Does it have ballast bags fitted? I note that no parachute or radio is specified in the ad, they may cost you a few thousand dollars if not included.

I don't think you can really go wrong at that price. As long as you fit in it.

Cheers,

Nick.


On Tuesday, 2 February 2016 00:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:
Nick Gilbert;918501 Wrote:
Hi Frank,

There are several Standard Libelles in South Australia, including a few
at Gawler, and at least one at Stonefield. I'm sure the owners of these
gliders would have been more than happy for you to have a sit in one to
see how you fit. I am guessing you are likely at Balaklava.

For what it's worth, I'm 6 foot 3 & quite meaty, and I flew a Libelle
for many years. If anything, the biggest issue was related to my feet
rather than the size of the cockpit. Some people find them to be quite
narrow across the shoulders as the cockpit walls taper inwards at the
top, but deceptively long.

My Libelle was a combination of 2 - early production wings combined with
late production fuselage. My wings were balsa core and had upper & lower
surface brakes. I don't believe the switch to foam core was intended to
modernise the glider, more to solve a material sourcing problem.

Jim, for what it's worth, mine was the first of 2 libelles that Bob
Dircks owned, VH-GAK.

A 1973 build Libelle is likely to have foam core, the thicker & rounder
tailplane, and top surface airbrakes only. Come to think of it,
considering the fact that i'm an avid reader of gliding classified
sites, and Libelles, I am fairly sure I know the one you are talking
about. Considering it's serial number is in the late 450's I am certain
it is as described above.

Cheers,

Nick Gilbert
Mosquito VH-GSG


On Saturday, 30 January 2016 12:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:-
Thanks for the comprehensive feedback chaps.
I cant actually try out the glider as it is 2300Km away.
I will be making an epic road trip to check her out.
I will fit, as I'm not really big, but my buddy was the one I was
concerned about. He is about 6"1 and 100Kg.
Sounds like it won't be an issue for him.
If she checks out ok I will be hauling her home.
I hope to become a regular contributor to this forum, even if its just
to ask dumb newbie type questions, as this will be my first private
sailplane.
I have a significant history of hang gliding, RC model soaring and FPV
p

--
Ommadawn-
Its a B version, 1880 hours.
You guessed it, Nick. I'm with BGC in SA.
Any obvious things I should look for when inspecting a 43 YEAR OLD
GLIDER!!!?




--
Ommadawn

iloting.
I'm in Adelaide South Australia.
Cheers
Frank.



After an exhausting 4 day, 4400km road trip, the 201B is now resting comfortably in her new home. I hope to check her out this weekend.
Many thanks for the helpful feedback. Im sure I will have a heap more questions as I explore the new toy.

Congrats! Looking forward to seeing some photos.

Nick.

Originally Posted by Nick Gilbert

Congrats! Looking forward to seeing some photos.

Nick.

Not only pigeons come home...
I had no idea.
My Libelle actually started life at my very own gliding club, back in the early '70s.
Its original owner was a member back then. It obviously went through a number of owners and clubs all over Australia during the last 43 years.
Its then owner even loaned her to a Spanish pilot to fly in the Waikerie World Championships back then.
The pic shows her at Balaklava GC when she was new, in early '70s.
The Blanik AP in the picture was the glider I soloed in, 1979. This image holds special meaning for me. I left the club in late 1980, and rejoined August 2015. Looks like we both have come home.
What goes around, comes around.

A fantastic result, Frank!
Great photo, quite appropriate. Don't sleep with the Libelle every night, make time to watch "Zulu Romeo" again to look for CT.
Oops, sorry I didn't remember the right Gilbert.
Jim

Originally Posted by JS

A fantastic result, Frank!
Great photo, quite appropriate. Don't sleep with the Libelle every night, make time to watch "Zulu Romeo" again to look for CT.
Oops, sorry I didn't remember the right Gilbert.
Jim

Nick, the belly release works, as it is used as part of the trailer restraint system.
She is fitted for water, but the bags are removed. The last owner made some new ones, but didn't fit them, as he wasn't happy with the result. I have them now, but will not be installing. I don't like the idea of winch launch failure, and a hurried landing with full wings. It comes with an old radio that is functional, Flarm, and some sort of GPS nav system I haven't even looked at yet. The instruments are old but adequate for now. My club has 4 parachutes which rarely see the light of day, as almost nobody flys the singles. I will use one of those for a while.
I will definitely have another look at ZR again and see if I can spot her!

Sounds good.

As far as the water is concerned, Libelles only hold 50 litres anyway so it wouldn't be too much of an issue in the event of a launch failure. In my memory water in the Libelle didn't really make an enormous difference with performance, but it did make it feel a little less like a cork in the ocean in turbulent conditions.

As far as the Balaklava parachutes are concerned, I had custody of one of them over the summer, as Eric borrowed mine for the Junior Worlds.

Nick

On Friday, 5 February 2016 12:13:05 UTC+10:30, Ommadawn wrote:
JS;919246 Wrote:
A fantastic result, Frank!
Great photo, quite appropriate. Don't sleep with the Libelle every
night, make time to watch "Zulu Romeo" again to look for CT.
Oops, sorry I didn't remember the right Gilbert.
Jim

Nick, the belly release works, as it is used as part of the trailer
restraint system.
She is fitted for water, but the bags are removed. The last owner made
some new ones, but didn't fit them, as he wasn't happy with the result.
I have them now, but will not be installing. I don't like the idea of
winch launch failure, and a hurried landing with full wings. It comes
with an old radio that is functional, Flarm, and some sort of GPS nav
system I haven't even looked at yet. The instruments are old but
adequate for now. My club has 4 parachutes which rarely see the light of
day, as almost nobody flys the singles. I will use one of those for a
while.
I will definitely have another look at ZR again and see if I can spot
her!


+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+



--
Ommadawn

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 21:51:16 +0000, Ommadawn wrote:

She is fitted for water, but the bags are removed. The last owner made
some new ones, but didn't fit them, as he wasn't happy with the result.

Another go-faster trick you might consider is fitting turbulators. This
used to add a point to the UK handicap (89 - 90) though the latest
handicap list seems to have dropped the '+turbulator' handicap. Anyway,
its a full span zigzag mylar turbulator on the under surface just ahead
of the undercambered region. Has no effect at lower speeds, but stops
flow separation in the undercambered area at high speed - at least that's
what I was told. It was on my Libelle when I bought her and certainly
high speed cruise around 70-80 kts shows less height loss than I expected.

If you're interested, talk to Glasfaser, who can supply the tape and/or
fitting instructions.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Looks good Frank. The undercarriage looks different to usual.

Out of curiosity, what instrumentation came with it? Is the water ballast serviceable?

You got the right Gilbert Jim

Nick.


On Friday, 5 February 2016 02:32:06 UTC+10:30, JS wrote:
A fantastic result, Frank!
Great photo, quite appropriate. Don't sleep with the Libelle every night, make time to watch "Zulu Romeo" again to look for CT.
Oops, sorry I didn't remember the right Gilbert.
Jim