Self-launch v Sustainer

On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 12:06:03 PM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Thanks for the detailed comments . There are several considerations still on the table (I have 500hrs including several hours in a Duo-Discus). My ideal motorized glider: 2-seater, easy to assemble, good trailer, dependable FES or non-pyloned powerplant, electric self-launcher (would settle for sustainer), good maneuverability. Trading-off on some features (other than my wife), the Stemme, Arcus M/T and Pipistrel Taurus electric both seem to come pretty close. I might consider a Stemme, but there doesn't seem to be many used VT's (better climb v S10), and as Dan mentioned, it doesn't maneuver like a 15m. Those are both out of my price range new. Other than Dave, there wasn't much discussion about sustainers. The numbers seem a bit tedious to find, so in general what is the weight penalty between self-launchers and sustainers? Reliability the same? Faster deployment? Yes, I would consider a single-place which would give more options. The newer electrics are compelling, but one might be waiting awhile to grab one. Aside from the deployment time, do they have a weight advantage as well (including Li batteries)? Dave's presentation included reference to a 30% incidence of engine failure (2-stroke?). Electrics must be an improvement over that, presumably. I have read Eric Greenwell's excellent articles at the ASA. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASA-NewsGroup/info
Thanks again,
Mike

Good thoughts.
How easy is it to put a Stemme in the trailer? Most of them don't have trailers, and the enormous Cobra trailer includes some complicated bits.
Agree with Andreas' comments re ASH25Mi, etc. Hope to fly a 32 this week.
The 25 feels just like any of the others in the AS line after a short while..
The N4DM is also easy to fly but I have not rigged one and personally don't care for two-stroke engines in aircraft.
Mike, in the "you only live once" spirit... Go for the Arcus JET!
Jim

The Stemme is easy to rig. I rig mine solo in about 9 minutes with no
need for any rigging aids. Of course, I keep it in a hangar and have
never taken the center section off, though I've seen videos and it looks
pretty complex. But who needs a trailer when you have a reliable Rotax
turbo? You can fly to any location and rent a car when you get there.
You do need a hangar or a rental space to keep it. You wouldn't want to
rig it from a trailer too often.

I've helped rig and fly an ASH-30 mi and it was quite an ordeal using
all those tools and equipment to get it out of the trailer and moved and
lifted into position. It flies about the same as the Stemme. Heavy and
difficult at first and, with a bit of practice, well mannered and easy
to fly.

On 10/31/2016 2:21 PM, JS wrote:
On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 12:06:03 PM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Thanks for the detailed comments . There are several considerations still on the table (I have 500hrs including several hours in a Duo-Discus). My ideal motorized glider: 2-seater, easy to assemble, good trailer, dependable FES or non-pyloned powerplant, electric self-launcher (would settle for sustainer), good maneuverability. Trading-off on some features (other than my wife), the Stemme, Arcus M/T and Pipistrel Taurus electric both seem to come pretty close. I might consider a Stemme, but there doesn't seem to be many used VT's (better climb v S10), and as Dan mentioned, it doesn't maneuver like a 15m. Those are both out of my price range new. Other than Dave, there wasn't much discussion about sustainers. The numbers seem a bit tedious to find, so in general what is the weight penalty between self-launchers and sustainers? Reliability the same? Faster deployment? Yes, I would consider a single-place which would give more options. The newer electrics are compelling, but one might be waiting awhile to grab one. Aside from the deployment time, do they have a weight advantage as well (including Li batteries)? Dave's presentation included reference to a 30% incidence of engine failure (2-stroke?). Electrics must be an improvement over that, presumably. I have read Eric Greenwell's excellent articles at the ASA. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ASA-NewsGroup/info
Thanks again,
Mike
Good thoughts.
How easy is it to put a Stemme in the trailer? Most of them don't have trailers, and the enormous Cobra trailer includes some complicated bits.
Agree with Andreas' comments re ASH25Mi, etc. Hope to fly a 32 this week.
The 25 feels just like any of the others in the AS line after a short while.
The N4DM is also easy to fly but I have not rigged one and personally don't care for two-stroke engines in aircraft.
Mike, in the "you only live once" spirit... Go for the Arcus JET!
Jim

--
Dan, 5J