Which ClearNav vario display?

I have both displays. The square display is much more readable, and includes the thermal assistant which is very very good. The only thing you want the round display for is a needle. The only reason for a needle is a quick glance at thermal strength as you are entering a thermal -- you have set the needle to relative netto while in cruise mode, so it answers "if I stop in this thermal what will its strength be?" That's it. For that purpose, it's a quicker read than the ribbon on the left of the square display. The audio is all you need for centering, and you should be looking outside anyway. The big fat number on the top right of the square display is where you look for thermal average for the stay/leave decision.

There may be a way to put the current relative netto on the numerical display in cruise. (I have pure netto there, with a long time constant). They you really wouldn't need the needle at all. Beep beep,,.. says 4 knots, it's a 4 knot thermal. You know there is lift, the question is, is this strong enough to stop, and a number is the way to answer this. The number may be moving around too fast to read though.. worth a try.

I disagree with UH. I would not want to look at a mechanical flow based needle. You want to look at a needle of the same vario feeding you audio, you want to look at relative netto not TE vario, and you don't want to mix a flow based system and pressure transducer system on the same line. Chuck the mechanical all together. I used to have a borgelt B40 backup -- self powered electric and pressure transducer, with audio. It's a lot better backup than a mechanical. Rex sold me on the idea of two separate CN varios so the round unit is a backup. This may reflect Rex's amazing salesmanship more than a practical idea.

Bottom line, if you only have room for one, choose the square display.

John Cochrane BB

On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 6:52:20 AM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
I have both displays. The square display is much more readable, and includes the thermal assistant which is very very good. The only thing you want the round display for is a needle. The only reason for a needle is a quick glance at thermal strength as you are entering a thermal -- you have set the needle to relative netto while in cruise mode, so it answers "if I stop in this thermal what will its strength be?" That's it. For that purpose, it's a quicker read than the ribbon on the left of the square display. The audio is all you need for centering, and you should be looking outside anyway. The big fat number on the top right of the square display is where you look for thermal average for the stay/leave decision.

There may be a way to put the current relative netto on the numerical display in cruise, and have a numerical display of the current TE vario in climb mode rather than the ribbon. (I have pure netto there, with a long time constant). They you really wouldn't need the needle at all. Beep beep,,.. says 4 knots, it's a 4 knot thermal. You know there is lift, the question is, is this strong enough to stop, and a number is the way to answer this. The number may be moving around too fast to read though.. worth a try.

I disagree with UH. I would not want to look at a mechanical flow based needle. You want to look at a needle of the same vario feeding you audio, you want to look at relative netto not TE vario, and you don't want to mix a flow based system and pressure transducer system on the same line. Chuck the mechanical all together. I used to have a borgelt B40 backup -- self powered electric and pressure transducer, with audio. It's a lot better backup than a mechanical. Rex sold me on the idea of two separate CN varios so the round unit is a backup. This may reflect Rex's amazing salesmanship more than a practical idea.

Bottom line, if you only have room for one, choose the square display.

John Cochrane BB

On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 6:54:04 AM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 6:52:20 AM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
I have both displays. The square display is much more readable, and includes the thermal assistant which is very very good. The only thing you want the round display for is a needle. The only reason for a needle is a quick glance at thermal strength as you are entering a thermal -- you have set the needle to relative netto while in cruise mode, so it answers "if I stop in this thermal what will its strength be?" That's it. For that purpose, it's a quicker read than the ribbon on the left of the square display. The audio is all you need for centering, and you should be looking outside anyway. The big fat number on the top right of the square display is where you look for thermal average for the stay/leave decision.

There may be a way to put the current relative netto on the numerical display in cruise, and have a numerical display of the current TE vario in climb mode rather than the ribbon. (I have pure netto there, with a long time constant). They you really wouldn't need the needle at all. Beep beep,,.. says 4 knots, it's a 4 knot thermal. You know there is lift, the question is, is this strong enough to stop, and a number is the way to answer this. The number may be moving around too fast to read though.. worth a try.

I disagree with UH. I would not want to look at a mechanical flow based needle. You want to look at a needle of the same vario feeding you audio, you want to look at relative netto not TE vario, and you don't want to mix a flow based system and pressure transducer system on the same line. Chuck the mechanical all together. I used to have a borgelt B40 backup -- self powered electric and pressure transducer, with audio. It's a lot better backup than a mechanical. Rex sold me on the idea of two separate CN varios so the round unit is a backup. This may reflect Rex's amazing salesmanship more than a practical idea.

Bottom line, if you only have room for one, choose the square display.

John Cochrane BB

Isn't that what the pop up on the square display tells you? How fast I might climb in this thermal? That is one of the more useful features of the square display, or the CNv as a whole. (You may have to enable that feature, not sure if it is default).

A circular needle tells you how strong the lift is (I used to have a pure netto vario in another glider and liked that a lot; a quick 2 kts offset gave me relative netto). But it also gives you acceleration: how fast lift strength is increasing/decreasing. The CNv ribbon changes the scale and the needle simultaneously, making it less intuitive and slower to understand what you want to know at a glance. I suspect the designers will say, well, the instrument is so responsive and smooth and immune to transients that all you need is the number it's pointing at. I don't agree.

I LOVE my CNv but unlike the CAI LNAV (in the appearance of the inputs of which it superficially resembles) the UI leaves a lot to be desired, whether menus, information architecture, inputs, navigating the device, or readouts. The exceptions are the numeric readouts on the main screen (quite good and comprehensive) and the thermal assistant (marvelous!). And the audio is also very good. I've honestly never tried to use the navigation functions because finding and using anything else in the device is frustrating for me. I've memorized the few button pushes I need because, IMO (and experience), the UI is not very intuitive and the chance of accidentally changing a setting is too great.

To repeat: I would hate to give up my CNv. It gives me much better information about the thermal than anything else. But I'd love to redesign the user interface. The designers may have wanted to avoid the CAI approach of a digital control unit and separate analog readout. But the resulting package leaves something to be desired for me.

Ironically, while I worried the 2 1/4" size would be a problem for this aging pilot, it's perfectly fine.

Chip Bearden