source for clips or sleaves for Hotelier linkages

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-6, James Thomson wrote:
At 07:57 29 July 2019, John Foster wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:17:38 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 6:09:07 PM UTC-6, Steve Bralla wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
=20
Thanks
=20
Al
Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...owlingpins.php
=20
Thanks for all the links, guys, but these are not the spec that is
called=
for in this AD. The glider in question is a Bolkow Phoebus, but I
believe=
this AD also applies to the Standard Cirrus, as well as some others
(corre=
ct me if I'm wrong). It specifically states the clip must be 1.2mm
diamete=
r wire, and gives a picture of the clip going across the push rod. In
this=
particular application, the push rod is only about 1/2" diameter, so a
cli=
p that is 1.5" long will stick out the sides too far and hang up on the
sur=
rounding structures. Here's a link to the AD:
=20
http://www.ltb-lindner.com/phoebus-ad-sb.html
=20
Look particularly at the PDF link "13 94_001 L`Hotellier
Verschluesse.pdf=
(94,4 kB)". =20
=20
It gives pictures and dimensions of the clip needed. It specifically
men=
tions a specific L'Hotellier part #140-31, or equivalent Ford part
number
1=
473 931, but neither of these part numbers come up with anything
other
than=
copies of the AD when a Google search is done. I can not find a
source
fo=
r these specific parts.

More specifically, these connections are for aileron and spoiler push
rods
=
that come through holes in the wing root rib. If the clips stick out too
f=
ar, they will snag on the edges of the holes in the wing root rib and
cause=
the control surfaces to hang up and not move properly. Obviously,
that
wo=
uld be very bad.

I think that you are getting the various locking devices confused! The
AD is issued by LBA - Google LBA 193-001/3 for the current version.
There are various locking methods to choose from - safety pins, Uerling
sleeves, LS locking sleeves, Schempp-Hirth clips, Wedekind sleeves are
all mentioned in the AD.

The L'Hotellier and Ford safety pins are very small and simply go through
the connector lock plate as shown on the second page of the Lindner
document. They do not go round the push rods or stick out to foul the
holes in the root rib.

Exactly. These are the type of connectors on my glider, and I am looking for a source for these "very small" pins. I realize there are other newer and better connectors, and one of those options may be in my future. But for now, I need to drill holes as mandated by this AD and use these specific small pins. Where can I find them?

Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you didn't lose the pin.

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:47:32 AM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you didn't lose the pin.

Thanks. Is this acceptable for a standard airworthiness certificated glider?

On 7/29/2019 3:10 AM, John Foster wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:47:32 AM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you didn't lose the pin.
Thanks. Is this acceptable for a standard airworthiness certificated glider?


Why not?

My Stemme has so many non-aircraft parts as delivered from the factory
that you wouldn't believe it.Â* Did you get your vario from and have it
installed by a certificated avionics shop?Â* Is that an aircraft battery
that's powering your avionics?Â* We're talking about bobby pins here.


--
Dan, 5J

At 08:47 29 July 2019, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
Look at a RC car supplier (like, Tower Hobbies) for "body pins" used to
hold a RC car body onto the chassis.
IIRC, we used to use dental floss tied onto the pin and pushrod so you
didn't lose the pin.

Google "R clips" ( guess why they are called that...!) Totally agree
about a
light safety thread to avoid losing the clip into the bottom of the
fuselage.

THESE
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Unique-Bargains-50pcs-R-Split-Mechanical-Hitch-Hair-Tractor-Cotter-Clip-Pin-1-6mm-x-28mm/546161908
are what I use.Â* Never run out again.

If those seem too cheap, send me $139.95, and I'll send you 6 of them. :-D

On 7/29/2019 2:39 AM, John Foster wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-6, James Thomson wrote:
At 07:57 29 July 2019, John Foster wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 1:17:38 AM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 6:09:07 PM UTC-6, Steve Bralla wrote:
On Monday, June 15, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Al wrote:
Anyone got any good suggestions for clips for hotelier linkages.
I also understand that there is a sleave kit out there somewhere.
=20
Thanks
=20
Al
Sleeves? I can't help. Pins? Aircraft Spruce
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...owlingpins.php
=20
Thanks for all the links, guys, but these are not the spec that is
called=
for in this AD. The glider in question is a Bolkow Phoebus, but I
believe=
this AD also applies to the Standard Cirrus, as well as some others
(corre=
ct me if I'm wrong). It specifically states the clip must be 1.2mm
diamete=
r wire, and gives a picture of the clip going across the push rod. In
this=
particular application, the push rod is only about 1/2" diameter, so a
cli=
p that is 1.5" long will stick out the sides too far and hang up on the
sur=
rounding structures. Here's a link to the AD:
=20
http://www.ltb-lindner.com/phoebus-ad-sb.html
=20
Look particularly at the PDF link "13 94_001 L`Hotellier
Verschluesse.pdf=
(94,4 kB)". =20
=20
It gives pictures and dimensions of the clip needed. It specifically
men=
tions a specific L'Hotellier part #140-31, or equivalent Ford part
number
1=
473 931, but neither of these part numbers come up with anything
other
than=
copies of the AD when a Google search is done. I can not find a
source
fo=
r these specific parts.

More specifically, these connections are for aileron and spoiler push
rods
=
that come through holes in the wing root rib. If the clips stick out too
f=
ar, they will snag on the edges of the holes in the wing root rib and
cause=
the control surfaces to hang up and not move properly. Obviously,
that
wo=
uld be very bad.
I think that you are getting the various locking devices confused! The
AD is issued by LBA - Google LBA 193-001/3 for the current version.
There are various locking methods to choose from - safety pins, Uerling
sleeves, LS locking sleeves, Schempp-Hirth clips, Wedekind sleeves are
all mentioned in the AD.

The L'Hotellier and Ford safety pins are very small and simply go through
the connector lock plate as shown on the second page of the Lindner
document. They do not go round the push rods or stick out to foul the
holes in the root rib.
Exactly. These are the type of connectors on my glider, and I am looking for a source for these "very small" pins. I realize there are other newer and better connectors, and one of those options may be in my future. But for now, I need to drill holes as mandated by this AD and use these specific small pins. Where can I find them?

--
Dan, 5J

What T8 did not mention is that the part of the pin that goes through the rod is bent to keep it permanently on the rod.

Very hard to drop into inaccessible cavities once installed.

Look at both of T8's photos to see how it's done.

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 9:40:25 AM UTC-6, George Haeh wrote:
What T8 did not mention is that the part of the pin that goes through the rod is bent to keep it permanently on the rod.

Very hard to drop into inaccessible cavities once installed.

Look at both of T8's photos to see how it's done.

I wish we could post photos on here like a "normal" forum. None of these solutions offered will work, because the clips are too long and will bind on the wing root rib as the ball joint moves back and forth through it. It is indeed the rotating cam variety of straight L'Hotellier ball connectors, as Scott Williams surmised. The smallest "R-clip" I've been able to find on Amazon is now 22mm long. This still would be too long, I would think. The holes in the wing root rib where the push rods exit are quite small, and the push rods are not centered in the holes either.

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 10:58:42 AM UTC-5, John Foster wrote:
On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 9:40:25 AM UTC-6, George Haeh wrote:
What T8 did not mention is that the part of the pin that goes through the rod is bent to keep it permanently on the rod.

Very hard to drop into inaccessible cavities once installed.

Look at both of T8's photos to see how it's done.

I wish we could post photos on here like a "normal" forum. None of these solutions offered will work, because the clips are too long and will bind on the wing root rib as the ball joint moves back and forth through it. It is indeed the rotating cam variety of straight L'Hotellier ball connectors, as Scott Williams surmised. The smallest "R-clip" I've been able to find on Amazon is now 22mm long. This still would be too long, I would think. The holes in the wing root rib where the push rods exit are quite small, and the push rods are not centered in the holes either.

Hey John,

62 FR 17537 - Airworthiness Directives; Louis L'Hotellier, S.A., Ball and Swivel Joint Quick Connectors

lindners online website lists the original A.D. in Europe. specifies clips only.
However, The U.S. FAA , allows safety wire. I fly with a club member who has a Phoebus A, and I owned a Phoebus C, Neither one of us was ever able to find any clips short enough to not rub on the tubes. properly located holes drilled into the cams and safety wire were the only solution we found.
It's A PITA, but once you've done it a few times not such a big deal.
Don't forget the required placard.
Good Luck,
Scott

One comment - If I read the above correctly some gliders do not have any safeties on their hotelier fittings at all??? Whoa! The FAA AD was released 27 years ago (revised 22 years ago) so I would have hoped that everyone had this uber-safety-critical fix implemented DECADES ago.

92-CE-41-AD; Amendment 39-10080; AD 97-08-06 R1