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The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Ramy

Ramy wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Dec 15, 6:14 am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
Ramy wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, but my point is, how can you make sure you will follow the
checklist on the panel when something goes wrong or distructs you.
After all, this is when we get in trouble, when something else goes
wrong.

Ramy

On Dec 16, 12:12 am, Ramy wrote:

Yeah, but my point is, how can you make sure you will follow the
checklist

T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G. P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E.

As Henry says: "Take the tow."

As Pete says: "Take the CFIG." At least once a year.

Practice your emergency procedures (no flap landings, no spoiler
landings). What do you think the military pilots do most of the
time? What do commercial pilots expect when they take their simulator
rides (at least once a year, sometimes twice a year)?

Make your own checklist. I've gotten in the habit of doing that for
each airplane (and each glider) I fly. As a Flight Test Guy, this
saves lives, saves money and makes the difference between success and
failure. The sun is setting on these items, but how many diamonds
would have been ACHIEVED if the checklist (the usually non-existent
checklist) had included the following two items:
1.) Wind barograph.
2.) Load film in camera, wind camera.

How many lives (and gliders) would have been saved if these had been
on the checklist?
A.) Positive Control Check - Elevator
B.) Positive Control Check - Rudder
C.) Positive Control Check - Aileron Left
D.) Positive Control Check - Aileron Right
E.) Positive Control Check - Spoiler Right
F.) Positive Control Check - Spoiler Left

Yup, I've been a dummy: took off once with the static ports still
taped over. Knew what to do: turned it into a pattern tow and a
practice "emergency" landing. Untaped the statics, did a (more
thorough) complete walk-around (preflight), got in line and took the
relight for a damn fine flight. And statics got added to the
preflight checklist!!! BTW, that's not the only time I've been a
dummy -- those that know me ...

A checklist is no substitute for airmanship. RAS posting is no
substitute for getting current AND competent in your machine. It
seems that too many of us get one or two flights in at the beginning
of the season, and then go striking out hunting diamonds (yeah, me
too). We should spend more time locally, with or without the Constant
Flight Interruptor aboard. We should practice more landings, short/
soft field with obstacle landings...simulated landing out landings.

After you use a checklist for a while, you'll find that they're
terrific security blankets, and help you relax more during the
flight. Keep the mnemonics (USTALL, TWA, GUMP) as safety nets. When
you forget your checklist, and feel brave enough to fly without it,
make sure you touch and say every item within your reach (spoilers,
release, flaps, gear, relief tube...).

The pros fly with checklists. The FAA condones the discipline. Many
accident investigation reports cite, as one of the causes, the crew's
failure to follow the appropriate checklist.

It's at least as important as your parachute. Hopefully, you'll use
the checklist more often.

-Pete
#309

The problem with "check lists" is that 99% of the time they are used as "do
lists" as in "shopping list".

They are not called "do lists" for a reason. You are supposed to be able to
perform all tasks on the list from memory and then check yourself with the
list. This way, in an emergency when you don't have time to find a list and
read it, you are likely to do the right things.

Used as "do lists" they are just a crutch. Used correctly as check lists,
they do add to safety.

I do my lists from memory and then scan the checklist to make sure I haven't
forgotten anything.

Bill Daniels




"Ramy" wrote in message
...
On Dec 15, 6:14 am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
Ramy wrote:
On Dec 14, 3:20 pm, tommytoyz wrote:
The point is to not assume that you will never forget a vital
function, no matter how good a pilot you think you are.

Or rather, that it is assured that at some point, everyone will forget
something ans so the importance of the checklist and that the ego in
us will always try to convince us the opposite.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.
There is much higher chance to forget using a checklist, or skip an
item in the checklist, than making any other mistakes. Especially the
landing checklist, any distraction and the first thing to go will
likely be the checklist. Any ideas how to make sure you never skip an
item on the landing checklist?

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, but my point is, how can you make sure you will follow the
checklist on the panel when something goes wrong or distructs you.
After all, this is when we get in trouble, when something else goes
wrong.

Ramy

On 15 Dec, 14:14, Martin Gregorie wrote:

Dymotape "WUF" (or whatever your acronym of choice is) onto the panel?

Or just a picture of a dog?

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

U

You shouldn't need a checklist for Lookout and Trim...

Ian

Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

I finally settled on WWW (Wind (direction&strength), Water (dumped, or
if not, adjust speed), Wheels (down before touchdown is good...)).
Those are specific to landing, and missing one of them could cause
something to break. Everything else is basic airmanship.

Kirk

On 17 Dec, 17:02, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Now, if somebody could come up with a good acronym for a dry, unflapped
glider.... ULT (Undercarriage, Lookout, Trim) is about all I can come up
with.

I finally settled on WWW (Wind (direction&strength), Water (dumped, or
if not, adjust speed), Wheels (down before touchdown is good...)).
Those are specific to landing, and missing one of them could cause
something to break. Everything else is basic airmanship.

I agree. We really shouldn't need a checklist to tell us to trim or
lookout.

Ian

On 15 Dec, 07:31, Ramy wrote:

I don't think anyone questions the importance of checklists, the
problem is how to enforce yourself to use it, and use it correctly.

There's also a question about when they are appropriate. Would anyone
here use a checklist for thermalling? I once had someone try to
convince me to use a check list for a winch launch cable break[*] -
is that a good use of the couple of seconds available for reaction?

Then, of course, there is the question of what we mean by a check
list. Is it a piece of laminated card which we take out of its pouch
and work through? Or is it just an acronym - in which case, how long
can it reasonably be? I've had people recommenend a downwind
WWULFSSTALL check - by the time you've done that lot you could have
landed the bloody thing, derigged it and started dinner.

Ian

* NARSTI: Nose down, Assess, Release Cable, Speed check, Trimmer set,
somethingbeginningwith I