MS20074-05-24 bolts

Dave S wrote:
cavelamb himself wrote:


I don't recall it here.
How about share if you can find it.


IIRC, AN bolts are grade 5 types to allow them to bend before braking.


I will look.. but the gist of it is.. a grade 5 will still fail
completely before the grade 8 starts to get strained... brittle versus
bending is besides the point in that regard.


And if that overstresses the attachment that is bolted together?

A bent bolt is a sure sign of an overstress.

A super hard bolt that didn't bend may be worse that a bent bolt.


Of course, it's an amateur built - with no official quality control.
So you can use whatever you want.

But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.

And - if that is not available? Will you choose not to continue with your
project, sell it incomplete and start something else?

BTW, when buying some certified AN bolts, I had to go through the bin and
pick out good ones. Two out of three had crooked threads. This is not
unusual.

Rich S.

Rich S. wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.


And - if that is not available? Will you choose not to continue with your
project, sell it incomplete and start something else?

BTW, when buying some certified AN bolts, I had to go through the bin and
pick out good ones. Two out of three had crooked threads. This is not
unusual.

Rich S.




Not available?

Or not cheap enough?

On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote:
Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out there
with a less expensive source?

I'm no expert at this but what if you where to call and ask about
buying a bulk amount?
More than you need to get the price down. This way you may also be
able to get the
shipping down. There are not too many places that won't deal to sell
more. Then list
the extras on ebay or elsewhere.
Lou

Yes you are right about discounts for quantity buys but $15.00 ea for 100 is
not going to be acceptable to my budget.
What this has done is to make me carefully review the application and learn
a bunch more about threaded joints and the strength requirements.
Stu
"Lou" wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote:
Recent quote for 16 of these bolts was about $20.00 each!! Anyone out
there
with a less expensive source?

I'm no expert at this but what if you where to call and ask about
buying a bulk amount?
More than you need to get the price down. This way you may also be
able to get the
shipping down. There are not too many places that won't deal to sell
more. Then list
the extras on ebay or elsewhere.
Lou

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

Not available?

Not available. This was true of several different fasteners and pieces of
hardware on the Emeraude. My plans came out in 1954 and there were no direct
aircraft hardware replacements or substitutions. None. Nada. Zip. And, in
the case of the landing gear bolts, it would be financially impossible to
scrap and redesign the wing spar for different hardware. So, like Stuart, I
learned a lot about bolt strengths and selected ones that would be more than
adequate for the job.

If a person is hung up on "certified" aircraft parts, he/she should have a
172 or fly commercially. Oh wait, they have failures, too.

Rich S.

Rich S. wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

Not available?


Not available. This was true of several different fasteners and pieces of
hardware on the Emeraude. My plans came out in 1954 and there were no direct
aircraft hardware replacements or substitutions. None. Nada. Zip. And, in
the case of the landing gear bolts, it would be financially impossible to
scrap and redesign the wing spar for different hardware. So, like Stuart, I
learned a lot about bolt strengths and selected ones that would be more than
adequate for the job.

If a person is hung up on "certified" aircraft parts, he/she should have a
172 or fly commercially. Oh wait, they have failures, too.

Rich S.



So be it, Rich. It's you choice on your airplane.

I'll stick to certified FASTENERS.

And recommend the same to anyone who will listen.


Richard

cavelamb himself wrote:


But me? I'll stick to known aircraft grade hardware.

Thats nice.

I'm using AN whenever possible, and reasonable. It's not reasonable to
pay $10 for a bolt that has a pedigree when a $1 bolt in a noncritical
application (or 50 cent.. or what have you) will work acceptably. Thats
just me.

My Mazda rotary engine has this weird thread scheme called "metric".
I have yet to find those with AN numbers. So I go and get an appropriate
or least incompatible grade in metric when needed to interface with the
engine in some manner.

Its called experimental for a reason.

My whole point was giving info. Someone was asking if grade 5 was better
than Grade 8. Thats subjective. The chart gives the cold hard numbers.
And if you read it.. again.. a grade 5 bolt will completely fail before
an 8 even gets strained (those values are in tension, not shear).

If you WANT the bolt to fail in a certain situation in your application
thats your business. If you want it to hold, thats your call as well.
Pick whats best for you.

Dave

Dave S wrote:

If you WANT the bolt to fail in a certain situation in your application
thats your business. If you want it to hold, thats your call as well.
Pick whats best for you.

Dave


One last point and I'll let it go...

The above is truly important decision point - but you left out
HOW you want the bolt to fail.

Add that, adn I have no problem with your approach.

This is a personal experience with AN fasteners. Here in the far
North, tailwheel bolts of the AN variety are very commonly broken when
landing in conditions they were never meant to endure, i.e., off-
airport boulder patches. Someone discovered that if you replace that
AN bolt with a CAT bolt, voila, problem solved. Standard Caterpillar
bolts are equivalent to grade 8 and they have VERY strong ones for
special applications. They come in a variety of sizes, but not "all"
sizes, so you may have to adjust things a bit to get the closest size
available to fit your application. Check the price, you will be
pleasantly surprised. Good luck.