City controlled airspace?

On Apr 19, 4:35 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, ZikZak wrote:



That under Dallas ordiance 5-24, the OP student pilot is okay to start
his engine.

Because a student pilot is a licensed pilot?


Frankly, I don't give a rat's fat ass if it's called a licence or a
certificate, but mine says "Airman Certificate," the FARs call it a
certificate, all official FAA publications call it a certificate, and
therefore so will I when discussing the concept with students. Nowhere
do the FARs or FAA publications discuss "pilot licenses" and therefore
that phraseology is incorrect.

Not that I really care one way or the other, except insofar as there
is an appropriate FAA terminology for the concept, and "license" is
not it.

Shall we drop it and agree on "ticket?"

ZikZak wrote:
On Apr 18, 3:32 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

"ZikZak" wrote in message

groups.com...




Um, dude. I call it a certificate because that's what it's called on
the ticket and in the regs. Are the regs wrong then?

A certificate cannot be a license?


I don't know. I'm not a lawyer.

But I guess I am an LFI.

cer·tif·i·cate /n. sərˈtɪfɪkɪt; v. sərˈtɪfɪˌkeɪt/ Pronunciation Key
- Show Spelled Pronunciation[n. ser-tif-i-kit; v. ser-tif-i-keyt]
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -cat·ed, -cat·ing.
–noun 1. a document serving as evidence or as written testimony, as of
status, qualifications, privileges, or the truth of something.
2. a document attesting to the fact that a person has completed an
educational course, issued either by an institution not authorized to
grant diplomas, or to a student not qualifying for a diploma.
3. Law. a statement, written and signed, which is by law made evidence
of the truth of the facts stated, for all or for certain purposes.
4. Finance. a. gold certificate.
b. silver certificate.

–verb (used with object) 5. to furnish with or authorize by a certificate.
6. to issue an official certificate attesting to the training, aptitude,
and qualification of: to certificate a teacher.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1375–1425; late ME certificat ML certific�tum, n. use of
neut. of certific�tus certified (ptp. of certific�re), equiv. to
certific- (see certify) + -�tus -ate1]


li·cense /ˈlaɪsəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[lahy-suhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, verb, -censed, -cens·ing.
–noun 1. formal permission from a governmental or other constituted
authority to do something, as to carry on some business or profession.
2. a certificate, tag, plate, etc., giving proof of such permission;
official permit: a driver's license.
3. permission to do or not to do something.
4. intentional deviation from rule, convention, or fact, as for the sake
of literary or artistic effect: poetic license.
5. exceptional freedom allowed in a special situation.
6. excessive or undue freedom or liberty.
7. licentiousness.
8. the legal right to use a patent owned by another.
–verb (used with object) 9. to grant authoritative permission or license
to.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1325–75; ME licence MF ML licentia authorization, L:
freedom, equiv. to licent- (s. of licéns, prp. of licére to be allowed)
+ -ia -ia; see -ence]


--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

ZikZak wrote:
Nowhere
do the FARs or FAA publications discuss "pilot licenses" and therefore
that phraseology is incorrect.

Actually the FARs do use the term "pilot license" - but always when talking
about "foreign pilot license." Use the Google search text to see whe

"pilot license" site:ecfr.gpoaccess.gov

Now why the FAA uses one term for the paper it issues and another for the
paper issued by all other nations is beyond my meager ability. It may be
easier to understand quantum mechanics. ;-)

On 18 Apr 2007 23:01:49 GMT, Bob Moore wrote:

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace. No further granting of
permission (license) is required, however, a
demonstration of training or ability (certification) may be required.

So every citizen of the United States has a license to fly, you're just not
allowed to do it without a certificate?


--
Dallas

Jim Logajan wrote
Now why the FAA uses one term for the paper it issues and another for
the paper issued by all other nations is beyond my meager ability. It
may be easier to understand quantum mechanics. ;-)

Because the rest of the world dosen't have our Constitution and the
Air Commerce Act of 1926

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace.

Bob Moore

On Apr 19, 11:47 am, Dallas wrote:

So every citizen of the United States has a license to fly, you're just not
allowed to do it without a certificate?

You can fly to your heart's desire without a certificate if you do it
in an ultralight.

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
...

In much the same way that flying VFR over a layer of clouds is VFR on top,
no matter how much the pack howls.


From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

VFR-ON-TOP - ATC authorization for an IFR aircraft to operate in VFR
conditions at any appropriate VFR altitude (as specified in 14 CFR and as
restricted by ATC). A pilot receiving this authorization must comply with
the VFR visibility, distance from cloud criteria, and the minimum IFR
altitudes specified in 14 CFR Part 91. The use of this term does not relieve
controllers of their responsibility to separate aircraft in Class B and
Class C airspace or TRSAs as required by FAAO 7110.65.


From FAR Part 1:

1.1 General definitions.

IFR over-the-top, with respect to the operation of aircraft, means the
operation of an aircraft over-the-top on an IFR flight plan when cleared by
air traffic control to maintain "VFR conditions" or "VFR conditions on top".

VFR over-the-top, with respect to the operation of aircraft, means the
operation of an aircraft over-the-top under VFR when it is not being
operated on an IFR flight plan.

"ZikZak" wrote in message
ups.com...

Frankly, I don't give a rat's fat ass if it's called a licence or a
certificate, but mine says "Airman Certificate," the FARs call it a
certificate, all official FAA publications call it a certificate, and
therefore so will I when discussing the concept with students. Nowhere
do the FARs or FAA publications discuss "pilot licenses" and therefore
that phraseology is incorrect.

Not that I really care one way or the other, except insofar as there
is an appropriate FAA terminology for the concept, and "license" is
not it.

Shall we drop it and agree on "ticket?"


Let's agree that anything that has the properties of a license, such as an
airman certificate, is a license.

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:47:26 GMT, Dallas
wrote in
:

On 18 Apr 2007 23:01:49 GMT, Bob Moore wrote:

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace. No further granting of
permission (license) is required, however, a
demonstration of training or ability (certification) may be required.

So every citizen of the United States has a license to fly, you're just not
allowed to do it without a certificate?

That's what the law says. The Administrative Law Judges, on the other
hand ...

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:48:03 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:

Let's agree that anything that has the properties of a license, such as an
airman certificate, is a license.

Does the federal government license Constitutional rights?