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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
Recently I tried to depart from an non-tower airport that has no
instrument approach procedure, and hence no instrument departure. I was told that I could not get a clearance on the ground, even with VIFNO etc., and that I would have to depart VFR and pick my clearance up while airborne. The recommendation made to me by both TRACON and local FSDO for departing IFR with a low ceiling was to get a special VFR clearance into the towered airport 6 miles away [which has an approach and then depart IFR from there. My question is, if I take responsibility for staying away from the rocks [assume a low ceiling, above the tops of small hills, but below minimum vectoring altitude], shouln't I be able to get a clearance on the ground? Alan, PP-AMEL-IA |
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
Sam Spade wrote:
If controlled airspace was not involved you could do what you want. Not true. The NTSB law judge said: "In that decision the law judge found that respondent's takeoff from an uncontrolled airport into clouds without a clearance or release from air traffic control (ATC) was not a violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.155(a), but was in violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.13(a). She ordered a 90-day suspension of respondent's commercial pilot certificate in lieu of the 180-day suspension sought in the Administrator's order. For the reasons discussed below, we deny respondent's appeal and affirm the initial decision." http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3935.PDF BTW: If anyone has an 'overuling' of this, please let me/us know. Hilton |
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
Hilton wrote:
Sam Spade wrote: If controlled airspace was not involved you could do what you want. Not true. The NTSB law judge said: "In that decision the law judge found that respondent's takeoff from an uncontrolled airport into clouds without a clearance or release from air traffic control (ATC) was not a violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.155(a), but was in violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.13(a). She ordered a 90-day suspension of respondent's commercial pilot certificate in lieu of the 180-day suspension sought in the Administrator's order. For the reasons discussed below, we deny respondent's appeal and affirm the initial decision." http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3935.PDF BTW: If anyone has an 'overuling' of this, please let me/us know. Hilton Just shows how dumb the bureaucrats are in matters related to flying. Matt |
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
On Mar 1, 11:51 pm, wrote:
Recently I tried to depart from an non-tower airport that has no instrument approach procedure, and hence no instrument departure. I was told that I could not get a clearance on the ground, even with VIFNO etc., and that I would have to depart VFR and pick my clearance up while airborne. The recommendation made to me by both TRACON and local FSDO for departing IFR with a low ceiling was to get a special VFR clearance into the towered airport 6 miles away [which has an approach and then depart IFR from there. My question is, if I take responsibility for staying away from the rocks [assume a low ceiling, above the tops of small hills, but below minimum vectoring altitude], shouln't I be able to get a clearance on the ground? What's VIFNO? Did they say why they couldn't issue a clearance while you were on the ground? It's not prohibited by FAAO 7110.65. |
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
On Mar 2, 3:56 am, Sam Spade wrote:
If controlled airspace was not involved you could do what you want. But, the rub comes in them providing you a clearance into (presumably 1200-foot floor Class E airspace without some procedure that assures obstacle clearance until reaching the minimum IFR altitude. Why is that a rub? |
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
On Mar 2, 4:37 am, "Hilton" wrote:
Not true. The NTSB law judge said: "In that decision the law judge found that respondent's takeoff from an uncontrolled airport into clouds without a clearance or release from air traffic control (ATC) was not a violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.155(a), but was in violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.13(a). She ordered a 90-day suspension of respondent's commercial pilot certificate in lieu of the 180-day suspension sought in the Administrator's order. For the reasons discussed below, we deny respondent's appeal and affirm the initial decision." http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3935.PDF BTW: If anyone has an 'overuling' of this, please let me/us know. That case was handled poorly. The pilot claimed, "his operation was not careless because he took several precautions: e.g., he broadcast his departure intentions on the Unicom frequency; he monitored the ATC frequency for other traffic; and he departed immediately after another aircraft which had received an ATC release and clearance, thus claiming to have assured himself that there would be no other IFR aircraft in the controlled airspace above the airport." How does departing immediately after another IFR aircraft ensure there will be no other IFR aircraft in the controlled airspace above the airport? The violation of 91.155 was dropped but probably should not have been. The pilot says there were clouds at 200 feet, and based on the other pilot's description of the weather it sounds like a solid layer, but he was VFR when he reached Class E airspace at 700 AGL. VFR cloud clearance in Class E airspace is 1000' above. |
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
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Instrument departure, non-IFR airport
Hilton wrote:
Sam Spade wrote: If controlled airspace was not involved you could do what you want. Not true. The NTSB law judge said: "In that decision the law judge found that respondent's takeoff from an uncontrolled airport into clouds without a clearance or release from air traffic control (ATC) was not a violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.155(a), but was in violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.13(a). She ordered a 90-day suspension of respondent's commercial pilot certificate in lieu of the 180-day suspension sought in the Administrator's order. For the reasons discussed below, we deny respondent's appeal and affirm the initial decision." http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3935.PDF BTW: If anyone has an 'overuling' of this, please let me/us know. Hilton When I said "do as you want" I did not mean without an air traffic clearance. I meant you could roll your own ODP but have a "when entering controlled airspace maintain X altitude, etc." |
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