Wind/Solar Electrics ???

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:35:16 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:

wmbjk wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:05:32 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:

When a lie becomes industry-accepted terminology then the industry is in
deep ****.

It was never a "lie" except in your ignorant vernacular. And for an
industry in "deep ****" it seems to be doing rather well overall.

"Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.


sigh You might correct your error by listing some popular "sine"
wave inverters, and the number of steps in their "not stepped"
waveforms.

Yes Mildred there really are true sine wave inverters that are not just
a sq. wave with many, many steps.

Another unsupported claim by Mr. Hole Digger. But at least you've
admitted in weasel-speak that some snorf "sine" wave inverters *do*
have stepped waveforms. Would you say that they're manufactured and
sold by liars?

Do your own ****ing search.

I take that to mean that you won't be providing any examples of sine
wave inverters with stepless waveforms. What a shocker.

Wayne

wmbjk wrote:
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:35:16 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:


wmbjk wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:05:32 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:


When a lie becomes industry-accepted terminology then the industry is in
deep ****.


It was never a "lie" except in your ignorant vernacular. And for an
industry in "deep ****" it seems to be doing rather well overall.


"Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.


sigh You might correct your error by listing some popular "sine"
wave inverters, and the number of steps in their "not stepped"
waveforms.

Yes Mildred there really are true sine wave inverters that are not just
a sq. wave with many, many steps.


Another unsupported claim by Mr. Hole Digger. But at least you've
admitted in weasel-speak that some snorf "sine" wave inverters *do*
have stepped waveforms. Would you say that they're manufactured and
sold by liars?


Do your own ****ing search.


I take that to mean that you won't be providing any examples of sine
wave inverters with stepless waveforms. What a shocker.

Wayne

although I find myself in agreement with george (very scary, especially
after his recent voltage driven LED faux pas) that the moniker "Modified
Sine Wave" is a misleading term, and should be changed to "Modified
Square Wave" in order to more accurately reflect the technology, you
seemed to have gotten under his skin a bit. Congrats.


--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:04:21 -0500, Steve Spence
wrote:

wmbjk wrote:
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:35:16 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:


wmbjk wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:05:32 +1100, George Ghio
wrote:


When a lie becomes industry-accepted terminology then the industry is in
deep ****.


It was never a "lie" except in your ignorant vernacular. And for an
industry in "deep ****" it seems to be doing rather well overall.


"Modified Sq. Wave" is just that. Sine Wave is not stepped.


sigh You might correct your error by listing some popular "sine"
wave inverters, and the number of steps in their "not stepped"
waveforms.

Yes Mildred there really are true sine wave inverters that are not just
a sq. wave with many, many steps.


Another unsupported claim by Mr. Hole Digger. But at least you've
admitted in weasel-speak that some snorf "sine" wave inverters *do*
have stepped waveforms. Would you say that they're manufactured and
sold by liars?


Do your own ****ing search.


I take that to mean that you won't be providing any examples of sine
wave inverters with stepless waveforms. What a shocker.

Wayne

although I find myself in agreement with george (very scary, especially
after his recent voltage driven LED faux pas) that the moniker "Modified
Sine Wave" is a misleading term, and should be changed to "Modified
Square Wave" in order to more accurately reflect the technology,

If only he'd stopped at making that point. But Judge Ghio had to
pontificate about liars, ignorance, and shysters. He just never knows
when to shut up. Anyway, the term is unlikely to ever be changed, and
it's a pretty minor issue IMO.

you
seemed to have gotten under his skin a bit. Congrats.

It's sooooo easy, since he *always* defends his mistakes with more
mistakes. The topper was "never wrong mate". Now *that's* funny.
Apparently the weasel definition of "never" is "most of the time".

Wayne

the moniker "Modified Sine Wave" is a misleading term, and should be
changed to "Modified Square Wave"

I would prefer "stepped sine wave". But I can accept the term "modified
sine wave" as marketing speak that has been on lots of UPS boxes for 20
years. (UPS itself being inaccurate for a standby power source.)

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:30:20 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

the moniker "Modified Sine Wave" is a misleading term, and should be
changed to "Modified Square Wave"

I would prefer "stepped sine wave". But I can accept the term "modified
sine wave" as marketing speak that has been on lots of UPS boxes for 20
years. (UPS itself being inaccurate for a standby power source.)


A chirped-frequency, nanosecond-wide, random-amplitude pulse train is
a modified sine wave.

John

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:51:30 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
wrote:

the moniker "Modified Sine Wave" is a misleading term, and should be
changed to "Modified Square Wave"

I would prefer "stepped sine wave". But I can accept the term "modified
sine wave" as marketing speak that has been on lots of UPS boxes for 20
years. (UPS itself being inaccurate for a standby power source.)

A chirped-frequency, nanosecond-wide, random-amplitude pulse train is
a modified sine wave.

John

;-)

Thanks!
Rich

In alt.solar.photovoltaic John Larkin wrote:

A chirped-frequency, nanosecond-wide, random-amplitude pulse train is
a modified sine wave.

I will accept that definition as offered.
Does that preclude having any other valid definitions?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

wrote:
the moniker "Modified Sine Wave" is a misleading term, and should be
changed to "Modified Square Wave"


I would prefer "stepped sine wave". But I can accept the term "modified
sine wave" as marketing speak that has been on lots of UPS boxes for 20
years. (UPS itself being inaccurate for a standby power source.)


I believe "stepped sine wave" to be an oxymoron. UPS (uninterruptable
power supply) isn't so wrong, as from the computer's POV, the power
never was interrupted. Of course, we know the difference between
"online" and "backup".

--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

In alt.solar.photovoltaic Steve Spence wrote:
I believe "stepped sine wave" to be an oxymoron.

I (obviously) don't agree with that. Gotta call it something. It's not a
sine wave, but if you squint at the oscilloscope a little, it looks more
like a sine wave than a square wave.

UPS (uninterruptable power supply) isn't so wrong, as from the computer's
POV, the power never was interrupted.

Ah, from a particular Point of View... if that's the criterion, then the
square/modified/lumpy/sine wave is a sine wave for most applications.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

wmbjk wrote:

I take that to mean that you won't be providing any examples of sine
wave inverters with stepless waveforms. What a shocker.

Wayne

Take it to mean that you can't prove that true sine wave inverters don't
exist.

Modified Square Wave inverters = True

Modified Sine Wave inverters = False