City controlled airspace?

On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, ZikZak wrote:

That under Dallas ordiance 5-24, the OP student pilot is okay to start
his engine.


Because a student pilot is a licensed pilot?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:200704181408187826-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...


It is the same thing, no matter how much the pack howls.

In much the same way that flying VFR over a layer of clouds is VFR on top,
no matter how much the pack howls.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:08:18 -0700, C J Campbell
wrote in
200704181408187826-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:

Now that the government issues the certificate and reserves the right
to take it away, it represents a license. It is the same thing, no
matter how much the pack howls.

The government doesn't licence Constitutional rights.

The FAA certifies that the airmans certificate holder has met
proficiency and knowledge standards.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:05:53 -0700, Erik
wrote in :

When I first started all of this I was completely amazed at the
similarities between a C150 engine and my VW Bug's engine.

You will probably find the greatest difference between the two engines
lies in their prices.

On 18 Apr 2007 23:01:49 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote in 28:

C J Campbell wrote
The people who insist on "certificate" are harking back to the days
before the FAA issued them. Originally, airman certificates were
issued by flying clubs. There was no FAA in those days.

CJ, I have copied the following from a series of emails between myself
and one of the editors of the AVWEB newsletter......

I can understand the idiots at the local TV station constantly referring
to
"pilot's licenses", but how did supposedly "aviation savvy" writers for
AVWEB mistake a certificate for a license in the lead article pertaining
to medical certificate fraud?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little journalistic license, Bob, as approved by the FAA.
Check it out under the Airman Registry subhed in the link provided
below.
It now appears that license is the preferred term and (certificate) is
bracketed : ie less used... http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick call to the FAA confirms that there has been no change and that,
just like the newscasters, the webmaster has inserted his own slant on
the subject.
Since the page seems to be intended for the general public, the
webmaster probably felt that they would understand license better than
certificate.

However............from Wikipedia

A license (American English) or licence (Commonwealth English) is a
document or agreement giving permission to do something.

A certificate is an official document affirming some fact.
A certificate may also certify that a person has received specific
education or has passed a test.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is this little bit of freedom granted to citizens of the United
States of America that makes the difference between license and
certificate.

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace.

No further granting of permission (license) is required, however, a
demonstration
of training or ability (certification) may be required. Note the
ultralight Part 103 exception to the certificate requirement.

There is no such federal code granting a citizen the right to operate a
vehicle on public roads, or to practice medicine, therefore allowing the
government to require a license.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My response from the FAA webmaster

Subject
Has the FAA really switched "pilot certificate" to "pilot license" as is
indi...

Discussion Thread
Response (FAA Expert) 07/22/2005 03:51 PM
It's a web error. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are
in the process
of restructuring our entire web site. I have initiated action to correct
this page to reflect "pilot certificate" and "mechanic certificates."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you mind if I wrote about this for Monday, Bob?

Write away Russ....just bear in mind that I'll be checking each and
every word. :-) :-)

What started out as just a gentle chide to the AVWEB editor turned out
to taking-on the FAA, something that I've done many times in the past.
I've been in this flyingbusiness for 47 years and have learned that the
FAA probably makes more mistakes than I do. Getting them to admit it as
easily as happened Friday came as quite a shock to me. My first call
was to the local (Tampa) FSDO and what a waste that was.
A simple yes or no question and after a five minute dissertation, I
still did not have a firm answer.

My name since leaving Naval Aviation and joining PanAm in 1967 has been
"Bob (It's a certificate not a license) Moore". The basic indoctrination
course at PanAm taught us a lot about aviation law and history. At 72
years of age, I am still an active Flight Instructor. I instructed for
three years in the Navy, probably ten years in the airline industry and
six years in the GA business and one thing that I learned early-on from
my students was to very carefully weigh each and every word that I
uttered for accuracy. This is much more important for those who would
commit words to paper, or nowadays,to the internet. :-)

BTW, that little bit of Federal Code had its origins in the Air Commerce
Act of 1926. Just try discussing that with your friendly local FDSO
inspector! :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bob (IACNAL) Moore

Many thanks for the research, and your setting the uninformed
straight.

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:03:00 GMT, "Jim Carter"
wrote in :

Ya' live and ya' learn.

But, can you learn to turn off html encoding for Usenet articles?

In much the same way that flying VFR over a layer of clouds is VFR on top,
no matter how much the pack howls.

"Over the top", your (IFR) clearance is over.
"On top", your clearance is on.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
et...
In much the same way that flying VFR over a layer of clouds is VFR on
top, no matter how much the pack howls.

"Over the top", your (IFR) clearance is over.
"On top", your clearance is on.

Jose

Thank you. That is exactly my point.

Thank you. That is exactly my point.

Well, it's not quite the same. In one case people believe there's a
difference, but just don't remember which is which. In the other case,
people don't realize there's a difference in the first place.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Apr 19, 4:35 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, ZikZak wrote:



That under Dallas ordiance 5-24, the OP student pilot is okay to start
his engine.

Because a student pilot is a licensed pilot?


Because a student pilot is properly certificated, and that would
certainly be found to be the intent of the ordinance, yes.