Altimeter Question

In rec.aviation.student Andy Hawkins wrote:
The PAN actually sounds to me like a good idea, but as I always say I'm
still a lowly stude! Being able to differentiate between a Mayday (basically
aircraft in imminent danger) and PAN (something that needs priority but
nothing that will endanger the aircraft in short order) seems like a good
idea to me.

Given the rarity of emergency calls, it seems like the important thing is
to make the emergency known in a simple and easy fashion first, then work
out the details later on as they're needed. The distinction is useful, but
I think that it's not worth putting extra workload on the pilot to figure
out just what degree his emergency is in his moment of crisis.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

On 04/18/08 08:38, Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Andy Hawkins wrote:
The PAN actually sounds to me like a good idea, but as I always say I'm
still a lowly stude! Being able to differentiate between a Mayday (basically
aircraft in imminent danger) and PAN (something that needs priority but
nothing that will endanger the aircraft in short order) seems like a good
idea to me.

Given the rarity of emergency calls, it seems like the important thing is
to make the emergency known in a simple and easy fashion first, then work
out the details later on as they're needed. The distinction is useful, but
I think that it's not worth putting extra workload on the pilot to figure
out just what degree his emergency is in his moment of crisis.


If the pilot is in a moment of crisis, then an emergency should be declared.
PAN is used when it is not at that level.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote in
news:Nr2dnRgnVOuoTpXVnZ2dnUVZ_t7inZ2d@surewest:

On 04/18/08 08:38, Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Andy Hawkins wrote:
The PAN actually sounds to me like a good idea, but as I always say
I'm still a lowly stude! Being able to differentiate between a
Mayday (basically aircraft in imminent danger) and PAN (something
that needs priority but nothing that will endanger the aircraft in
short order) seems like a good idea to me.

Given the rarity of emergency calls, it seems like the important
thing is to make the emergency known in a simple and easy fashion
first, then work out the details later on as they're needed. The
distinction is useful, but I think that it's not worth putting extra
workload on the pilot to figure out just what degree his emergency is
in his moment of crisis.


If the pilot is in a moment of crisis, then an emergency should be
declared. PAN is used when it is not at that level.



That's th epoint, Pan is no longer in the common lexicon. The guy I
quoted earlier risked his passeneger's life being a pedantic ****.


Bertie

If the pilot is in a moment of crisis, then an emergency should be declared.
PAN is used when it is not at that level.

The AIM goes into this in detail. MAYDAY is for an aircraft in distress,
while PAN-PAN is for an urgency condition. Both are emergencies:

6-1-2 a. An emergency can be either a distress or urgency condition as defined
in the Pilot/Controller Glossary. Pilots do not hesitate to declare an
emergency when they are faced with distress conditions such as fire,
mechanical failure, or structural damage. However, some are reluctant to
report an urgency condition when they encounter situations which may not be
immediately perilous, but are potentially catastrophic. An aircraft is in at
least an urgency condition the moment the pilot becomes doubtful about
position, fuel endurance, weather, or any other condition that could adversely
affect flight safety. This is the time to ask for help, not after the
situation has developed into a distress condition.

6-3-1 c. The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any
subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with the
signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times. The signal PAN-PAN should be
used in the same manner for an urgency condition.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...6/aim0601.html

Barry schrieb:

6-3-1 c. The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any
subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with the
signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times.

And here's an example how it may sound in real life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE

Stefan wrote in
:

Barry schrieb:

6-3-1 c. The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any
subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with
the signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times.

And here's an example how it may sound in real life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE


That's an example of how it does sound in real life...



Bertie

Stefan schrieb:
Barry schrieb:

6-3-1 c. The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any
subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with
the signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times.

And here's an example how it may sound in real life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE

And BTW, at 2:20 you hear the QNH thing.

In rec.aviation.student Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/18/08 08:38, Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Andy Hawkins wrote:
The PAN actually sounds to me like a good idea, but as I always say I'm
still a lowly stude! Being able to differentiate between a Mayday (basically
aircraft in imminent danger) and PAN (something that needs priority but
nothing that will endanger the aircraft in short order) seems like a good
idea to me.

Given the rarity of emergency calls, it seems like the important thing is
to make the emergency known in a simple and easy fashion first, then work
out the details later on as they're needed. The distinction is useful, but
I think that it's not worth putting extra workload on the pilot to figure
out just what degree his emergency is in his moment of crisis.

If the pilot is in a moment of crisis, then an emergency should be declared.
PAN is used when it is not at that level.

Is the imminent demise of one of your passengers not considered a moment
of crisis, or was this guy using the wrong signal?

I know that if one of my passengers started croaking in mid-flight, I'm
going to be getting on the ground in a rapid fashion and telling people to
clear out of my way and call emergency services, not arguing with people
over radio terminology.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

On 04/18/08 13:35, Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/18/08 08:38, Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Andy Hawkins wrote:
The PAN actually sounds to me like a good idea, but as I always say I'm
still a lowly stude! Being able to differentiate between a Mayday (basically
aircraft in imminent danger) and PAN (something that needs priority but
nothing that will endanger the aircraft in short order) seems like a good
idea to me.

Given the rarity of emergency calls, it seems like the important thing is
to make the emergency known in a simple and easy fashion first, then work
out the details later on as they're needed. The distinction is useful, but
I think that it's not worth putting extra workload on the pilot to figure
out just what degree his emergency is in his moment of crisis.

If the pilot is in a moment of crisis, then an emergency should be declared.
PAN is used when it is not at that level.

Is the imminent demise of one of your passengers not considered a moment
of crisis, or was this guy using the wrong signal?

Your concerned seemed to be that the pilot may be too overloaded to have
to think about whether he should use MAYDAY or PAN. My comment is that
if he is in such a state, he should just use MAYDAY.


I know that if one of my passengers started croaking in mid-flight, I'm
going to be getting on the ground in a rapid fashion and telling people to
clear out of my way and call emergency services, not arguing with people
over radio terminology.

Of course. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

In rec.aviation.student Mark Hansen wrote:
On 04/18/08 13:35, Michael Ash wrote:
Is the imminent demise of one of your passengers not considered a moment
of crisis, or was this guy using the wrong signal?

Your concerned seemed to be that the pilot may be too overloaded to have
to think about whether he should use MAYDAY or PAN. My comment is that
if he is in such a state, he should just use MAYDAY.

Well, I'm concerned that the decision adds to the load. There will always
be borderline cases. It seems to me that it would be better to have a
universal "I'm in trouble, pay attention to me now" call and leave the
distinctions for followup communications.

I know that if one of my passengers started croaking in mid-flight, I'm
going to be getting on the ground in a rapid fashion and telling people to
clear out of my way and call emergency services, not arguing with people
over radio terminology.

Of course. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

Very good then!

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software