Punctured pressure cabin.

"Cub Driver" wrote...

And more detail yet. This too from rec.aviation.piloting:

************************************************** **********************

Anyone
familiar with the structure of an A/C will immediately ROFL at the
idea of a 9mm bullet penetrating the external skin if fired from
inside the cabin.

It would take a substantially more powerful weapon than a 9mm to cause
a "Window Failure",
.. . .

The same applies to a bullet exiting through the A/C skin. Consider
between what is seen as the interior cabin wall & the "External Skin"
of the A/C is a layer of insulation, assorted wiring, plumbing in
some places, plus untold ribs, stiffeners, & other assorted structural
components all of which have some "Curvature" to them.
.. . .

There are a few places a "Very High Velocity Bullet" of large caliber
could possibly exit the external skin if it the internal point of
impact was at a "very specific angle, very close to 90 degrees to
external skin" if fired from close range internally.
.. . .

************************************************** ******

(Again: the above is quoted from rec.aviation.piloting)

....which doesn't mean anything as far as credibility goes! Who wrote that?!? I
am almost ROTFL at some of the assertions made up there (salient parts
retained)!

Though the plexiglass in the cabin windows is tough, it isn't THAT tough! A 9mm
or .40 S&W round would EASILY penetrate both layers! The flattened edge of a
JHP round would help prevent ricochet when it hit the thin inside layer, and
mushrooming would probably start without any substantial decrease in velocity.
The net result would be a hole of about 1/2" in diameter. Whether or not the
window would fail immediately or eventually is a matter of conjecture, but is
entirely within the realm of possibility.

As for the aluminum skin, it is already stressed by the differential pressure,
and could not resist a similar round. The interior trim and insulation would,
again, start the JHP mushrooming, and maybe slow it down somewhat, but not
enough to prevent it from penetrating the thin aluminum skin.

IF the bullet happened to hit a rib, it may well be stopped. An overlapped skin
section would not stop it, however. Air ducts wouldn't affect it much at all;
hydraulic lines would deflect it rather than stop it or cause it to "ricochet";
and a THICK wire bundle MIGHT slow it enough to prevent penetration.

---------------------
John Weiss
Retired Naval Aviator
current 747-400 pilot

FWIW, tomorrow (Friday) night on The Discovery Channel's "Myth Busters"
program, one of their projects is rapid decomp of an airliner.

FWIW, tomorrow (Friday) night on The Discovery Channel's "Myth Busters"
program, one of their projects is rapid decomp of an airliner.

Will somebody summarize the findings here, for the sake of us pathetic
losers with antennas in the attic?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

From: Cub Driver
Date: 1/1/2004 2:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

FWIW, tomorrow (Friday) night on The Discovery Channel's "Myth Busters"
program, one of their projects is rapid decomp of an airliner.

Will somebody summarize the findings here, for the sake of us pathetic
losers with antennas in the attic?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:


The urban myth in question was that a passenger heard a funny noise coming from
the window. He summoned a stewardess who leaned forward to listen and was blown
through the window when it blew. Supposedly she exited the window like
"toothpaste from a tube."

The show has experts, altitude chambers etc all of which proved it could never
happen.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: Cub Driver
Date: 1/1/2004 2:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

FWIW, tomorrow (Friday) night on The Discovery Channel's "Myth Busters"
program, one of their projects is rapid decomp of an airliner.

Will somebody summarize the findings here, for the sake of us pathetic
losers with antennas in the attic?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:


The urban myth in question was that a passenger heard a funny noise coming
from
the window. He summoned a stewardess who leaned forward to listen and was
blown
through the window when it blew. Supposedly she exited the window like
"toothpaste from a tube."

The show has experts, altitude chambers etc all of which proved it could
never
happen.

I would take the TAM F-28 accident as a departure from that "could not
happen". Unlikely, yes; impossible, no, as we have already seen. I keep
racking my head for the info regarding an incident back in the 80's where a
USAF C-130 (or maybe EC-130) was fired upon by a Columbian or Venezuelan
fighter (mistaken identity case), and IIRC a crewmember of the Herky Bird
was ejected from the aircraft...?

Brooks


Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

On 01 Jan 2004 22:19:37 GMT, B2431 wrote:
From: Cub Driver
Date: 1/1/2004 2:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

FWIW, tomorrow (Friday) night on The Discovery Channel's "Myth Busters"
program, one of their projects is rapid decomp of an airliner.

Will somebody summarize the findings here, for the sake of us pathetic
losers with antennas in the attic?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

The urban myth in question was that a passenger heard a funny noise coming from
the window. He summoned a stewardess who leaned forward to listen and was blown
through the window when it blew. Supposedly she exited the window like
"toothpaste from a tube."

The show has experts, altitude chambers etc all of which proved it could never
happen.

Something like that did happen, though, on 3 November 1973.

A National Airlines DC-10 (flight 27, between Houston and Las
Vegas) was cruising at 39,000 feet over New Mexico when the number
3 engine's fan assembly disintegrated. Fan blades penetrated the
fuselage and one of the cabin windows, and a passenger seated in
seat 17H was forced out through the missing window. The victim's
seatbelt was fastened, and briefly prevented him from going
completely out the window. Another passenger tried to pull
him back in, but was unsuccessful.

After an emergency descent, the DC-10 landed safely at Albuquerque.
An extensive ground search for the passenger's body was conducted,
but his remains were never found.

As far as I know, this is the only case of a person being blown
(sucked, pulled, whatever) completely through a missing aircraft
window during a rapid decompression.


ljd

In article ,
Laurence Doering wrote:

Something like that did happen, though, on 3 November 1973.

A National Airlines DC-10 (flight 27, between Houston and Las
Vegas) was cruising at 39,000 feet over New Mexico when the number
3 engine's fan assembly disintegrated. Fan blades penetrated the
fuselage and one of the cabin windows, and a passenger seated in
seat 17H was forced out through the missing window. The victim's
seatbelt was fastened, and briefly prevented him from going
completely out the window. Another passenger tried to pull
him back in, but was unsuccessful.

After an emergency descent, the DC-10 landed safely at Albuquerque.
An extensive ground search for the passenger's body was conducted,
but his remains were never found.

As far as I know, this is the only case of a person being blown
(sucked, pulled, whatever) completely through a missing aircraft
window during a rapid decompression.

In 1990, a British Airways pilot almost got sucked out of his plane at
17,000 feet when a piece of the windshield fell off. He was wearing his
seatbelt, but got pulled under it. A flight steward held on to him
until another steward strapped into the seat and helped hold on. The
co-pilot landed the plane, and the pilot survived with some broken bones
and a case of frostbite.

And, one would assume, a need for clean underwear.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In message , Chad Irby
writes
In article ,
Laurence Doering wrote:

Something like that did happen, though, on 3 November 1973.

A National Airlines DC-10 (flight 27, between Houston and Las
Vegas) was cruising at 39,000 feet over New Mexico when the number
3 engine's fan assembly disintegrated. Fan blades penetrated the
fuselage and one of the cabin windows, and a passenger seated in
seat 17H was forced out through the missing window. The victim's
seatbelt was fastened, and briefly prevented him from going
completely out the window. Another passenger tried to pull
him back in, but was unsuccessful.

After an emergency descent, the DC-10 landed safely at Albuquerque.
An extensive ground search for the passenger's body was conducted,
but his remains were never found.

As far as I know, this is the only case of a person being blown
(sucked, pulled, whatever) completely through a missing aircraft
window during a rapid decompression.

In 1990, a British Airways pilot almost got sucked out of his plane at
17,000 feet when a piece of the windshield fell off. He was wearing his
seatbelt, but got pulled under it. A flight steward held on to him
until another steward strapped into the seat and helped hold on. The
co-pilot landed the plane, and the pilot survived with some broken bones
and a case of frostbite.

And, one would assume, a need for clean underwear.

There was also the case of the Yugoslav air stewardess who left the
plane at about 30k and survived.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

"John R Weiss" wrote:


(Again: the above is quoted from rec.aviation.piloting)

...which doesn't mean anything as far as credibility goes! Who wrote that?!? I
am almost ROTFL at some of the assertions made up there (salient parts
retained)!


I agree...I'm very familiar with the 9MM Parabellum round having
owned a Waltzer P-38 for a few years had having access to a
practically unending supply of ammo from the RCAF for it. (having
a good buddy who was also a gun nut AND an armourer in the RCAF
didn't hurt) plus being quite familiar with a/c I can attest to
your views here.
--

-Gord.